A Journey of a Man Who Has Never Found an Ideal Home


A Journey of a Man Who Has Never Found an Ideal Home

by Pui Man Stephanie Ho, December 2016

“To leave, or not to leave home?” This question is the major consideration of most immigrants. Home refers to the place where a person is born, the place where a person lives with his/her family, and the place where a person feels that he/she belongs. While living between two worlds, immigrants need to re-conceptualize the idea of identity and home inside their minds as well as acknowledge cultural differences when they step outside into the bigger world. From the research presented in “Where do US immigrants come from, and why?”, which aims at providing historical background of global migration and main reasons for migration from 1971 to 1998, the authors indicate that the source countries Mexico and Canada “form 82.5 percent of all US immigration over the entire period” (Ximena et al. 14). From these statistics, we can see that there are approximately 20,000,000 immigrants migrating to the US within the 28-year-period, just like Jackson Ho. Jackson Ho, an 83-year-old Chinese man who emigrates from Hong Kong to the United States, uses his own ways to integrate two distinct cultures and overcome major obstacles he encounters throughout his journey of life. This oral history project addresses the difficulties Jackson faces during his transition from childhood into adulthood and analyses how they change his sense and definition of home during the transition period between the moment he decides to move and now.

My interviewee, Jackson Ho, is a Chinese immigrant born in 1933 in Jiangmen City, Guangdong Province, China. Jackson experiences his first involuntary migration when he is two years old, due to the fact that he is forced by his family to go to Hong Kong by ferry through Macau, not only to reunite with his extended family, but also to strive for a better future in this international hub. However, the second Sino-Japanese War, which begins in Hong Kong in 1937, ruins Jackson’s childhood and creates a lifelong nightmare for him, which implies that he is born into chaos and suffering. After the surrender of Japan in 1945, and after the transfer of sovereignty in 1947, Jackson already foresees the shortcomings of living in Hong Kong; hence, he starts planning his second migration voluntarily in 1980s. After he arrives in the U.S. in1991, he works as an architectural assistant for ten years, while taking care of his grandchildren in his spare time. Until now, he reunites with his sons and daughters in San Francisco and enjoys his retired life. All the way through Jackson’s stay in the United States, he faces discrimination when his employer pays him less than the average wage, isolation based on language fluency when he works in the architecture company, and cultural clashes when he encounters the majority/minority religious shift of Buddhism; While he persists through all of these challenges, he finds life in the U.S. enjoyable and claims the U.S. is a better home.

While home is a place where a person satisfies his/her physiological needs, like the needs for food, water, and rest, Jackson does not view Hong Kong as his home because he cannot gain access to an adequate amount of resources during the second Sino-Japanese War. The most traumatic and appalling abuse Jackson faces during war period is the infringement upon his right to life. According to the United Nations’ Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC), which lays out the rights of every child, regardless of his/her race, religion or abilities, “Every child has the inherent right to life” (Article 6.1); besides, it emphasizes that all children have the right to a life more than physical survival, including a chance of development. Yet the second Sino-Japanese War is intruding on a child’s basic rights by reducing his/her amount of food intake and limiting his/her future potential. Food and other daily necessities are considered luxuries during the second Sin-Japanese War, so the Japanese army implements a quota system to limit the resources available in society. Jackson recalls his plight when he is experiencing food shortages:

“[I] have a large family with many siblings, cousins, aunts and uncles, so we had a very hard time to find enough food for all people in the family. My mother told me that although we could be given a certain amount of food. They were usually rice and potatoes with little meat. So sometimes we needed to eat fruits and crops that grow in the field.”

This statement describes how Jackson is struggling in a dilemma between safeguarding his safety and upholding his right to life. If he wants to be safe, he needs to hide inside his family’s grocery store in the city center; if he wants to find extra food in the countryside, he needs to risk his life because he may be killed by the Japanese soldiers. During the second Sino-Japanese War, Jackson realizes his right to life is being violated and his physiological needs are not satisfied in Hong Kong due to the Japanese quota system, so he does not view Hong Kong as his home.

Home is a place where a person feels safe and secure; while Jackson experiences physical and psychological maltreatment under the Japanese army when he is living under continuous bombing in Hong Kong, he cannot consider Hong Kong as his home. During wartime, Jackson’s family needs to flee from their home in Central to their grocery store in Wan Chai so as to avoid attack from the Japanese soldiers. Jackson recalls, “No, I did not see the bombs, but the bombing happened near me. So we needed to find places to hide. I really heard bom, bom, bom!” In the daytime, Jackson and his relatives will sit on the staircases of concrete buildings to avoid being bombing targets; at nighttime, he and his grandmother will hug together and seek protection under the hard wooden bed frame to prevent debris from falling on them. One morning after a series of bombings throughout the night, Jackson wakes up and notices a young man who is covered with blood lying next to him. Although Jackson is not seriously hurt or injured physically, witnessing a human being dead next to him as a child will certainly leave a deep mark in his memory. In the article “Children and war: current understandings and future directions,” Dr. Helene Berman, Assistant Professor at the University of Western Ontario, examines the long-term physical and emotional disorders of children after witnessing death or murder incidents. She claims, “a small but growing number of investigators have documented the occurrence of PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder) in refugee youth…one survey reported that almost 94% of their sample met the criteria for PTSD” (2). She states that children are easily exposed to PTSD because they have limited cognitive comprehension of the world and have fewer mental skills to cope with the trauma; hence, even teenagers should particularly not experience or witness violence, like torture or murder of relatives during wartime. Luckily, Jackson does not seem to suffer from PTSD after witnessing the death of an individual, but the incident definitely depresses him and leaves a profound imprint on him. Despite the fact that he suffers from sad memories of that time, he is able to say, “I was already used to it, and there was no use for us to fear.” Jackson feels hopeless because there is no way for a child to escape from the harsh conditions under the second Sino-Japanese War. Fear does not help solve any problem. So in order to keep alive, there is no time to fear. Jackson spends most of his childhood running for his life during the second Sino-Japanese War, which leaves him with both physical and mental scars, and does not feel secure living under these conditions; therefore, he thinks that Hong Kong, a place without stability, cannot be his home.

After the surrender of Japan in 1945, while the economy of Hong Kong is starting to surge with the influx of Chinese workers, corruption also plays a role in society throughout 1950s, which makes Jackson think that Hong Kong, without chances of prosperity and success, cannot be his home in his lifetime. In the 1950s, Hong Kong undergoes massive changes politically and socially: for instance, the change of the Superior Court judge, the amendment of The Laws of Hong Kong, and the influx of Chinese labor and the increase in Hong Kong population. The new governmental officials not only change their ways of dealing with social issues, but also abuse their power by giving and receiving bribes. It is obvious that the behavior and policy of the government organizations will directly affect the daily lives of citizens. Jackson recalls, “So if they affect our lives, it is dangerous for us to stay in Hong Kong.” He claims that if Hong Kong is ruled by corrupted officials, citizens will live in misery, and he thinks he is correct looking at the news about the polluted environment and the high cost of living in Hong Kong nowadays. He believes that in a corrupted system, he has not only a limited potential, but also a smaller chance in achieving personal success. Under corrupted government officials, Jackson feels hopeless about his future and believes that his hope cannot blossom and fulfill itself in his homeland; hence, he does not deem Hong Kong his home.

After all the sufferings Jackson faces in Hong Kong, China, he decides to migrate to the United States with his brother’s petition in order to strive for a better future in late 1980s. Jackson believes that he can gain equal access to food and safety, foster hopes of prosperity and success, and avoid human rights abuses in the US. After twelve hours of direct flight from Hong Kong, he feels the breeze of San Francisco, which seems to remind him of his arrival to the Land of Hope once he steps out of the airport. While Jackson starts his life and career in the US, he realizes that he is still suffering from human abuses and discrimination when he receives unequal salary from his coworkers, when he speaks Chinese-accented English with simple vocabularies and when he put his belief in a religion minority; yet in a less intense way compare with his experiences in Hong Kong.

Working as an assistant in an architecture company is the first job Jackson lands when he arrives in the U.S.; however, his manager just takes advantage of his strong work ethic and pays him less than other local workers. America, without the full respect of human rights, changes his sense of home. According to the UDHR, “Everyone, without discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work” (Article, 23.2). When Jackson is working as an assistant, he receives pay that is lower than that of other architect assistants in the same company. He recalls, “Others are receiving around $20 per hour, and I am just getting about $10 per hour. But we are all assistants and we all draw drafts.” He thinks that he earns an unreasonable wage from the company because the company discriminates against his identity as an immigrant. Although Jackson realizes that his right to equal pay is being intruded upon, he is desperate to make money in order to maintain his living and does not know any other methods of finding a better job. Hence, he keeps working for the architecture company for ten years until he retires. Obviously, most U.S. citizens will have some degree of discrimination against immigrants in general, so they tend to take advantage of them by paying a salary that is lower than the average wage, which is an intentional violation of their human rights. Although Jackson receives unequal pay, the salary he receives does not have a great impact on his living conditions because he can still afford his basic necessities like food and rent; thus, his situation actually improves a lot compares with his life in Hong Kongm, when he did not have enough food to eat. Yet he probably thinks that the US is not his ideal home without the total respect of basic human rights.

While Jackson is working for the architecture company, he encounters some degree of language barriers and isolation when he tries to communicate with his coworkers; hence, Jackson thinks that without full acceptance and harmonious relationships America is not his perfect home. In Hong Kong, Jackson has a college degree of architecture, but he is just equipped with a junior level of English, so he barely speaks English and understands English grammar; therefore, this language barrier becomes the first obstacle in his new life in the US. At the architecture company, Jackson can understand his colleagues on architecture-related topics in English without difficulties, but whenever his colleagues try to talk about their daily lives or leisure activities, he feels totally lost and cannot comprehend what they are talking about. Jackson remembers, “Sometimes I cannot fully express what I mean, so I dare not to speak up. Then less and less coworkers talk to me, and I am alone all the time”; this statement describes how Jackson is being alienated and feels depressed due to the fact that he does not know much English and speaks English with heavy Chinese accent, so no one can truly understand him and talk to him in the company as he is the only Chinese in his department. Jackson worries that he will be discriminated against not only by his coworkers, but also by other English-speaking people. Jackson is once full of confidence and a sense of achievement upon arriving to the US, but now this is replaced by feeling of anxiety and uncertainty. In the article “Stress-Associated Poor Health Among Adult Immigrants with a Language Barrier in the United States,” which attempts to examine the stress-associated health status of adult immigrants with a language barrier in the USA, Dr. Hongliu Ding, Commissioner’s Fellow at the US Food and Drug Administration’s Center, and Dr. Hargraves Lee, Research Associate Professor in Family Medicine and Community Health at UMass Medical School, claim, “immigrants with a language barrier were of low socioeconomic status and they reported a higher percentage of unhappiness (32.42% vs. 8.84%), depression (19.29% vs. 6.27%), and anxiety (12.29% vs. 4.04%)” (3). Even when immigration is a personal choice, the processes of immigration and assimilation are very stressful, especially at the beginning of people’s lives as immigrants, like facing difficulties in employment, financial problems, cultural conflicts and lifestyles changes. Obviously, Jackson experiences unhappiness, depression, and anxiety in his first few years of immigration, but luckily he overcomes these emotions and does not let them affect his life as he realizes that life must go on. He still needs to learn English despite the fact that he is in his sixties, so he applies for nighttime college courses determinedly. Even though Jackson can only understand a little English and uses short sentences after learning English for several years, he already believes that “English grants opportunities.” With his limited knowledge in English, he travels to the New York on his own, and this eye-opening experience grants Jackson inspirations for his future plans, which lead to personal success in later years. It is clear that Jackson has a greater chance of prosperity and intellectual growth in the US than in Hong Kong because he has more opportunities to broaden his horizons and learn new things. Although Jackson faces discrimination because of his English speaking-style and usage during the first few years in the US, he later gets the chance to improve his English, which enables him to travel and to look at the world from multiple perspectives; however, he thinks that if everyone can respect others by showing love and acceptance in all aspects, America will be a perfect home for him.

To Jackson, a perfect home should have equality between religious groups, no matter whether it is for major or minor religion. While Jackson is living in the US, he faces discrimination based on his religious belief in Buddhism when he tries to assimilate to society in the 1990s. He trusts that America, with its relatively high degree of freedom, should accept all minorities and treat each religious group equally. Jackson recalls, “Although people discriminated against me because of Buddhism, I will keep my faith in Buddha. Although not much people believe in Buddhism in the US, I will keep my faith in Buddha.” Jackson has a strong faith in Buddhism not only because he believes in the words spoken by Buddha, but also due to the fact that he comes from a traditional Chinese family, which has roots their faith in Buddhism. However, it is common that new immigrants will be persuaded to put their faith in Christ, rather than Buddha, in order to become more Americanized. Some Christian Americans will think that Christ is more powerful, so they may say something that insults the believers of Buddha. Jackson remembers, “When I was buying food at the market, people would laugh at me because a smell of incense was coming out from me”; this incident makes him feel depressed as he thinks that he can never fit in. Dr. Fenggang Yang, Assistant Professor of Sociology at the University of Southern Maine and Dr. Helen Rose Ebaugh, Professor of Sociology at the University of Houston, assert the idea that “religion continues to serve both ethnic reproduction and assimilation functions ” in the study entitled “Religion and Ethnicity Among New Immigrants: The Impact of Majority/Minority Sates in Home and Host Countries,” which aims to examine the changes of immigrants’ religious group throughout their adaptation to US society (2). It is evident that regular religious group meetings and strong religious belief can help new immigrants to assimilate successfully and expand their social circles by providing a social space for them to express opinions and meet new people. Buddhism is the religion of the majority of immigrants living in Hong Kong, but when Jackson moves to the US, it becomes a minority status. While shifts in majority/minority status of religious groups make up a part of the migration process, if immigrants can continue seeking strength in their religion, they can have a greater sense of belonging in the new country. Fortunately, Jackson can overcome the negative feelings of being discriminated against based on his religion and find his own way to assimilate into society, yet he thinks that if everyone can treat each religion equally, he will have a greater sense of belonging in America.

Jackson faces numerous difficulties and abuses to his human rights in Hong Kong, which include physical and psychological maltreatment during the second Sino-Japanese War and serious corruption that begins in the 1980s. Even though Jackson migrates to the US in his sixties in hopes of a better future, he still thinks that America is only a home with improved situations for his physical and psychological needs; the US is not an ideal home. After Jackson moves to the United States, he continues to suffer from discrimination at his workplace due to his language fluency and in society because of his religious belief. While Hong Kong can be considered Jackson’s natural home because he spends his childhood there, the traumatic incidents he experiences definitely leave profound impacts on him physically and psychologically, which do not let him consider Hong Kong as his home. An ideal home is where human rights are respected: sustenance is guaranteed, safety is safeguard, and intellectual growth is promoted. Actually, due to recent rapid development and globalization in the US, the misery of human rights abuses and discrimination based on identity and cultural background have been significantly reduced as people are educated to respect others’ rights. Jackson reflects, “I believe the decision I made back in 1980s was correct and I do not regret even after forty years.” Although he faces obstacles in the first few years of migration, he can see that America has been a great step forward in providing resources to new immigrants and transforming the US as their new ideal homes. So he does not regret his decision of migrating to the US, and he hopes one day the US can become his ideal home.

Works Cited

Berman, H. “Children And War: Current Understandings And Future Directions.” Public Health Nursing 18.4 (2001): 243-252. CINAHL Plus with Full Text. Web. 10 Nov. 2016.

Clark, Ximena, Timothy J. Hatton, and Jeffrey G. Williamson. Where do US immigrants come from, and why?. No. w8998. National bureau of economic research, 2002.

Ding, Hongliu, and Lee Hargraves. “Stress-associated poor health among adult immigrants with a language barrier in the United States.” Journal of immigrant and minority health 11.6 (2009): 446-452.

Ebaugh, Helen Rose. “Religion and the new immigrants.” Handbook of the Sociology of Religion (2003): 225-39.

The United Nations. “Convention on the Rights of the Child.” Treaty Series 1577 (1989): 3. Print.UN General Assembly. “Universal Declaration of Human Rights.” United Nations, 217 (III) A, 1948, Paris, art.


Sample Transcript

Pui Man Stephanie Ho: Where did you born?

Jackson Ho: Umm, I was born in Xinhui, which is a city district in the City of Jiangmen in the province of Guangdong in China. But actually I considered myself born in Hong Kong; however, I did not have a Hong Kong birth certificate, so I cannot claim that.

SH: So you do not have Hong Kong birth certificate, but you have China birth certificate?

JH: Yes. In the past, most of my family members moved to Hong Kong during the Japan-China War, but my mother and I stayed in Xinhui because she needed to take seniors at her home. My grandparents, father has moved to Hong Kong earlier. When I have the chance to go to Hong Kong, I was about two-year-old and being carried by my mother, arriving Hong Kong by ferry through Macau. This incident was so memorable because during the trip to Hong Kong, my mother told me to be silenced because we are afraid of the Indians who wore head accessories, called “mo luo cha” in Cantonese.

SH: So, it is your own decision to come to the US, but why do you want to come to the US?

JH: Umm, during that time, in the 1980s and I was born in 1933, I realized that Hong Kong needs to return to China in 1997. I grew up in a Hong-Kong-rooted family. At that time, my brother was preparing to immigrant to the US, so he was qualified to bring his siblings to the US. It is not a must for me to immigrant to the US, but based on my sophisticated friends’ and my judgments. I can foresee that the development of HK society will be affected by China because things have changed completely even after Japan’s surrender. From my memory, I can remember many things, even the establishment of The People of Republic in 1949. So with the chance of immigrating to the US, I definitely try to apply. So I already made up my mind to immigrant in 1980s. To exaggerate, I believed the decision I made back in 1980s was correct and not regret even after forty years. The things happened in the 21st century, were actually in my expectations. My family, which had three generations, already starts their lives in the US.

SH: So you start your life in the US in 1980s?

JH: No, I decided to come in 1980s, but arrive in the US in 1991.

SH: So when you arrived in the US, you were approximately sixty years old?

JH: That time, I was around fifty years old

SH: Did you bring any family members with you?

JH: Yes, I brought my daughter, Jessica, with me. Due to the fact that she was seventeen which was under eighteen or twenty-one, she can follow her parents to the US according to the immigration law. However, my other sons, Keith and Frank, cannot immigrate with me in 1990s. But I still apply for their immigration status after I have arrived in the US and have the qualifications to be the applicants. I hope that they can have a chance to come to the US immediately or anytime in their lives. So today, my dreams have come true.

SH: When you decided to come to the US, what would you expect from here?

JH: Personally…umm… You know the seniors in my family had moved to Hong Kong even before the Sino-Japanese War, but that time, Hong Kong did not have much development. I applied to the Hong Kong Technical College after I finished middle school and major in interior design and architecture. With this profession, I knew more people than are more sophisticated and educated than me. And they predicted, if I immigrate to the US, I will have a comfortable life than in HK. Throughout the past 10 years, I have participated in 9 out of 10 famous architecture projects as an architecture assistant. But you ask me why I come to the US and have what kind of plan in my mind, I can answer you. I have no plan in my mind when I come. I think the Chinese living in HK are comparable to the Chinese living in elsewhere, because in HK, we are already exposed to international culture, values and living styles. So when I arrived, I just have one relative in San Francisco. Besides, my relatives in HK has introduced me to a female Chinese designer, who is around 30 year-old and later introduced me to a Chinese architecture company with around twenty employees. And that’s suits me. But the architecture’s style is still different from HK, so I need to join some government subsided vocational courses in order to learn American’s style and the techniques of using computers. Later, some architecture companies seek new employees in our college, and then the principle has introduced some students for the positions, including me. I got the job in EQE which is in charge of preventing earthquake in architecture. Its head quarter is located at the downtown of San Francisco. I worked in EQE for 10 years. However, others are receiving around $20 per hour, and I am just getting about $10 per hour. I drew diagrams by hand and computers. As the job is easier than HK, I do not feel unsure or lost. I also do not think life styles or living in the US is an obstacle because as a HK people, we already exposed to similar situation in HK.

SH: So you did not feel scared or not comfortable?

JH: So I think I am a lucky person. No matter relatives in HK or the US, we both live comfortable lives. (12:33)

JH: I do not think there is a difference between what I expected before coming to the US and after I have arrived here. Everything is smooth. (13:15)

JH: I did not intentionally learn English after I arrived in the US because I already use English as medium when I was working in HK. I know almost all English technical terms about architecture, so it does not contribute to a barrier when I work. Besides, I can listen and speak simple English which is not a major obstacle in my daily life. Yet, sometimes I cannot fully express what I mean, so I dare not to speak up. Then less and less coworkers talk to me and I am alone all the time. But later after I learnt English, I can communicate with Westerners freely, although sometimes I still cannot fully express what I mean. I think westerners here are very friendly, so I am not afraid when I make mistakes in English. English is not a barrier to me. English grants opportunities. With understanding of English, I can travel to New York two times. I admit that my English grammar is poor, but with English vocabularies, I can live in the US without big problems. However, English only applies to my normal social circle, once I stepped outside my comfort zone, I cannot fit in and do not understand what other people are talking about.


SH: Do you think there is a difference between the life style in HK and the US, like eating habit?

JH: Yes. When I just arrived in the US, I am not very used to eating American food every meal. So I mainly just eat Chinese food. Actually in Hong Kong, I was exposed to different many kinds of cuisines, so I have a basic understanding about Western food. In the US, I also have simple American style lunch, like pasta, bagel, bacon, clam chowder and etc. But mostly I would prefer dinner in Chinese style because as a Chinese, I think it is important for us to have rice in our meals.

SH: Have you been influenced by the American culture?

JH: Yes. For example, I have been introduced to pot luck party, western style wedding, and buffet. However I do not understand American opera and drama due to my limitation in English. I can only understand American movies with Chinese subtitles.


(28:56)SH: Did you notice the cultural difference in the US? Like American usually eat slowly? Certain waiters/waitresses are responsible for certain tables? Tips are encouraged after dinning?

JH: I have answered this question before. I think as an immigrant from Hong Kong, I already exposed to western culture. Besides, I know that we need to adjust ourselves in order to fit into the new environment, we need to follow the US customs. For example, if you see a salesperson is talking to anther customers in grocery stores, you will wait in line due to politeness. For example, you will automatically give tips after meals because it is a custom in the US. In Hong Kong, we are used to give service fee at around 10%, but in the US, we need to pay about 10-20%.


SH: How about any differences in religion?

JH: There is of course a difference. At first when I came, people here put their faith in Christ rather than Buddha. This makes me sad because some people even look down on me. Although people discriminated against me because of Buddhism, I will keep my faith in Buddha. Although not much people believe in Buddhism in the US, I will keep my faith in Buddha. Of course in theses few years, the situation improved. But there is one incident I encountered in early years that I can still remember. When I was buying food at the market, people would laugh at me because a smell of incense was coming out from me.


(36:00)JH: I can tell how Hong Kong changes from good to bad because I experienced the transformation myself. I have participated in the project of demolishing the old HSBC building and constructing the new building. I am responsible for drawing part of the design. Um…um…The project was in-charged by a British architect. So the design was finished and edited in Britain, then passed to Hong Kong and implemented here. In Hong Kong, our company needed to revise a bit so as to fit the rules here. I took part in projects like the University of Science and Technology, horse racing valley in Shatin, Kowloon Park, and Ocean Park. So you know…uh… Hong Kong has so many main buildings that I have participated in. But suddenly 1997 reached, and many foreigners came to Hong Kong and disturbed our pattern of life. Also, the political structure, in my opinion, would change in the near future. Now, it proved that I have a correct prediction. Talking about the feelings when I returned back to Hong Kong nowadays. I realized that the buildings I took part in were still here, but the buildings that were built later were scattered all around the place without organization. The entrepreneurs know the law well, so they tried to construct buildings as much as they could without considering places for rest area and playground. So the difference is that there are no green leisure areas in Hong Kong anymore. Besides, the country side of Hong Kong is also being commercialized in order to cater the needs of citizens. At that time, I predict that Chinese would just walk from Luowu and Shenzhen to Hong Kong on foot. They have the right to cross the broader, so we could not stop them. But we need to consider the consequences ourselves.

(39:21)JH: The judge has changed, so their ways in dealing with the environment have changed also. I have seen that many people would abuse their power by giving and receiving bribe which contribute to corruption. The behavior and policy of the powerful people would directly affect the daily lives of citizens. So if they affect our lives, is it dangerous for us to stay in Hong Kong. The air maybe polluted, the environment maybe damaged, and the pregnant women needed to be careful when they go out and buy formula milk. But we do not need to face these situations in the past. Maybe we need to compete for water next week despite the fact that the water is polluted. In the near future, the price may increase due to monopoly. So educated people could think of the consequences in the future. So you have a feeling…wow…when you go back to Hong Kong, some people would carry a lot of luggage. They come and visit Hong Kong, so it is no right or wrong for the behavior of shopping. Sometimes they would hurt you with their luggage in crowded environment, but they would not say sorry, instead you need to say sorry to them. I know I am old, so my memory is limited. Although the one who is at the same age as me and also a Hong Konger, not many people can remember as much as I do.

(42:17)JH: In 1947 during the peaceful time after the Sino-Japanese War, you guess how many people are living in Hong Kong. I think at most around a few hundred thousand. Now with population increase to over 1,000,000people, the proportion of survivors of the war is very little. At that time, I was only eight or ten years old. Can you imagine how many people can speak freely and record interviews just like me.

(50:47)JH: Now let’s talk about the Second Sino-Japanese war. At that time, I have a big family with all my uncles and aunties. But my relatives were very smart because they separated our family into small groups then arranged places for us to hide from the Japanese. My grandmother cares me very much, so she hugged me and we both hide under the bed inside our store. Because that time, the bed frame is made from wood, so it is very hard. At the same time, my aunt accompanied me and my cousins and walked them to Lockhart Road in Central because there is no public transport during war time. They went to the concrete buildings and sat on the stairways in order to avoid bomb.

SH: So you see the bomb in person?

JH: No, I did not see the bomb, but the bombing happened near me. So we need to find places to hide. I really heard “bom, bom, bom”. Umm..umm.. ok…My grandmother hugged me and hide under the bed frame as usual. The Japanese soldiers will throw bombs from Kowloon side to Hong Kong side at night. “Weeeeeeee, bom”! But I am already used to it, and there is no use for us to fear. Then the next morning when we woke up, “wow”, we can see a young man. That time, the internal structure of our store is very simple as it was made of wood for most of the parts. The young man died and lay next to us, very near to my shoulder. He is dead and covered with blood. Then the British soldiers came to pick the bodies up at around 11am. OK. Talking about the general days during the war. My aunt brought us to Admiralty during the day and let us sit on the stairways in front of the concrete buildings. My aunt said did not sit on the first two or three steps because the Japanese soldiers could see us up in the sky, and do not sit on the last two or three steps because we would be trapped inside the house if it was bombed. Talking about my mother. The corner on Cochrane Street was surrounded by bricks walls so as to prevent bombing from the Japanese. Umm…one day, my mother walked passed that corner, and heard “bom” from bombing. Luckily she passed it quickly, so she was not hurt by the bomb. But the lady behind her was hurt because of the bomb. Also tell you this thing. My mother needs to go out to buy rice and necessities during war period with quotas. When she came back home, she told us that in Kennedy Town pier a Japanese soldier killed an old man ,who jumped the line for rice, with a gun and pushed the dead body into the sea. So when you are talking about the war. At time, my grandfather was buried in Waterfall Bay, South of Hong Kong Island. Many other people who passed away also buried in that cemetery, so many relatives would come and give a salute. For Chinese customs, we need to burn incents and money for dead people. However, if any Japanese soldiers saw any one who practices the traditional way, they would beat them up until half dead. So Japanese are very bad and I do not like them. Ai…ai… I am really mad at them. I just stood in front of my grandfather’s grave, and the Japanese soldier in suit would spy on you and keep an eye on you. He did not have any facial expressions. I was so sacred. But during Japanese invasion, he has the right to treat you in any way. So I am so lucky that I did not die. Talking about how lucky I am to be alive. (57:42) You know that the Central Police station is in Central and on the corner right opposite to it is a secondary school. I was studying in the primary school organized by the same organization. During summer holiday, no one wish to walk passes the Central Police Station because two Japanese soldiers will guard the door. So people tend to walk another way to reach their destination. If you walk pass them, you need to bow in order to show your respect. If you do not bow, they have the right to beat you up. During summer time with the invasion of Japan, my classroom which I used to learn in was bombed by the Japanese. You know bombs do not have eyes, so they will not care where they bomb. Luckily, I was not at school that time, so I can be safe. After I heard that my school was destroyed by a bomb, I quickly went back and take a look. But all I saw was just debris.

Referring back to the war. When the bombing stopped, my aunt needed to go back to Central. You know that there are railroads in Central. It was normal when I walked from Central to Wanchai before the bombing, but all I could saw were dead bodies lying on the railroad when I walked from Wanchai back to Central after bombing. The dead bodies were just covered by white cloth, and when I needed to walk across the street, I need to walk like I was dancing because the bodies are lying around irregularly. If you do not walk like you were dancing, you would be tripped by the bodies of citizens or soldiers. Some were dead, but some were just badly injured.

SH: So did you saw any people dead in front of you in person?

JH: It was so lucky for me because I have never seen any people died in front of me. But the experiences developed have contributed to a new self, including new personalities and new perspectives to the world.

SH: Is there anything you typically remember from the war?

JH: Ah…I think hunger. I have a large family with many siblings, cousins, aunts and uncles, so we had very hard time to find enough food for all people in the family. My mother told me that although we can be given a certain amount of food, they are usually rice and potatoes with little meat. So sometimes we need to eat fruits and crops that grow in the field. I do not like the feelings of hunger, but I do not have a choice.

SH: You experienced three years and eight months of the Japanese war?

JH: Such a good question you have asked. I just experienced two years and eight months of the second Sino-Japanese War. In the last year of the second Sino-Japanese war, my mother noticed that the prices of daily necessities, like rice, are rocketing. For example, rice cost $10 per 10 pound, but during that time the price increases every day. So my mother brought me and her two other children with her and travelled to her hometown in China. Her hometown was just a small village with farmlands. Then we came back to Hong Kong one year after the Japanese government surrender, which is 1946. You know that my mother needed to support the expenses of our family back in her hometown, so she needed to go to work from morning until midnight. So from that time onwards, I was responsible for preparing the dinner for my family, which includes my sister of age 2. Every night after dinner, we would wait for our mother in front of the bus stop with tears on our face. But it is useless for us to cry, so I became more independent and brave.

SH: So you do not fear about the future in the US because your experiences during war time have trained you in a certain way?

JH: Yes. Now I can even drive to Canada myself. But I admit that as I grew older, I have some health issue, like eye problem and sensitive skin. But these are common health problems faced by most senior. I say that as Hong Kong people, we have different degree of adaptation due to our living environment and standard.





Home Bitter Home


Home Bitter Home

by Susana Hernandez, December 2016

Luis  Rodriguez was born in the small pueblo of San Lorenzo in Honduras. He belongs to the poor class, which would be the working class if there were actual jobs for them in the scarce gang-run world of Honduras. With no job, he had to take care of his family, which was only getting bigger; he decided it was time to come to the promised land of America to save enough money for his family. As he was taking his trip, though, he was reassured that the journey was way too dangerous to risk bringing his family with him but was worth coming into the U.S. by himself. Because Luis, like many others, could not afford to keep waiting on the Honduran government to react to their amount of poverty in his country and the increase in gang control there, he was convinced that coming to the U.S. to work and save money for his family was the best solution possible.

The reason why Luis wanted to migrate to the U.S. was based greatly on the violations he and his people faced from their government. In Honduras, the government acts as if it does not care for its people, as most of their population is unemployed, poor, or oppressed by ruling gangs. As Luis says, “Well, uh, my motive and reason on why I made my decision to leave my country was because in my country life is very hard economically. There’s no work and well you can’t live well like that.” If there were a good economy that produced jobs in Honduras, Luis would have no need to come into the U.S to look for work. As states Professor Leah C. Schmalzbauer, author of the article “Family divided: the class formation of Honduran transnational families,” which sets out to explain what it is like for transnational families from Honduras with a parent in the United States, “Unemployment in Honduras is high, especially for youths, and most jobs that are available do not pay a living wage. ‘Good’ jobs in Honduras tend to be reserved for the nation’s elite. Thus Marcos’s family, like most poor families in Honduras, lacks the social and cultural capital to maneuver within the rigid hierarchical system.” Professor Schmalzbauer gives us an understanding of why a lot of poor families are looking to the north for a better chance at giving their families a healthy way of living. Luis had no other choice but to risk his life coming into the U.S. “Well, um, I entered illegally right because, because it’s very difficult to come to this country, right, risking life a lot in this journey but sometimes the necessities come in our country and with all the violence there is, a lot of gangs bringing fear to our homes. Soon [one] makes the decision to come over here knowing that the journey is very difficult.” This is an example of what some people have to go through to make sure they have a chance of survival in their own home.  People should not have to be living in such fear that their only option is facing a different type of danger.

The constant stress and fear that comes with poverty and violence can greatly impact the lives of the residents of Honduras in a negative way. It is not a healthy lifestyle to be constantly living in fear, knowing that one day something bad can occur to you or your family. When I asked Luis about the chances of gangs threatening his own kids, he responded, “Well, uh, for real, that would never even cross my mind, think of such thing, right? I only pray to God that he takes [and] protects my family, and cares for them I always think of my children. Well, right now they’re studying in school and for that motive I came to this place. Right?” I concluded that this is his coping mechanism: to simply not think of the bad that can happen but to give thanks for what he has. Professor Leah C. Schmalzbauer further acknowledges this:

“…while stress is indeed shared by all members of poor transnational families, research shows a tendency for migrants working in the USA to relativize their communication with family, hiding the harsh reality of their lives in order to protect their loved ones at home from worry, and also to project an image of success.” (332)

When you are going through a tough situation, you can either give up or try your best, and working hard is what these migrants are looking for so they use the best methods of survival, which include positivity and resilience. Since migrants go through a lot of anxiety, many, just like Luis, have learned to stay positive and hope for the best while also working to achieve that.

Most migrants face stress not only in their home countries they are leaving but also while in the unfamiliar land of America, where they are considered to be “illegal aliens.” Once they are relieved from the horrible experience of crossing the border, they have to live in constant fear of getting caught by the authority, as they are considered to be some of the most wanted criminals. I asked Luis if he had any fear of being caught by the authority; he looked at me and then stiffly said, “Well, yes, I do have fear of  getting caught and deported because I know I am an illegal, and what I did is illegal, and I know anything can happen at any moment.” Constantly living under such stress is another obstacle many migrants go through and for some the level of traumatization can reach high peaks. Living with fear is not easy as it can cause the person to be put in danger more easily. In the book Coyotes: A journey through the secret world of America’s illegal Aliens, Ted Conover writes about his experience of crossing the border and living like a migrant from Mexico to the United States. On one part of his journey, he helps some of his Mexican friends reach LA but while on their way Ted gets assaulted by a man in a shop:

“I looked around at my friends. None of them were moving all just staring at me. Why weren’t they helping me?… telling the counter man to get on the phone with the police. I saw him pick up the phone, and then I realized what the problem was. The Police. Commotion. Attention. This was exactly what this journey was supposed to avoid.” (82)

This is only one of many other dangerous events that can happen from the fear of being deported, but migrants like Luis take this risk and try to overcome it to reach their goal of getting enough money to go back home and live well.

The people of Honduras have been greatly affected by the unequal distribution of income, which has made many desperate enough to leave their own homes in search of work. Luis mentions to me, “When they see the people barely start to work and they are already trying to do impuesto guerra, to charge a fee for working and that’s what makes a lot of people decide to leave because gangs don’t even let you work right.” The gangs only make it more difficult for most of the population, and according to the CIA is, 60 percent are poverty stricken people who try their best to hang on to their homeland, but are only further stripped of the little money they can make. The only programs being developed by the government are from foreign investors who are creating supposed “Zones for Economic Development and Employment” or ZEDES.  Maya Kroth from Foreign Policy is author of “The coast of Honduras could be the site of a radical experiment,” which takes a deep look into “charter zones’” (work cities) being created by foreign investors and what the outcomes can be. Kroth argues that the jobs created in these cities are made only for highly “skilled” professionals: “These poor people, what can they offer to the ZEDE. Here there are no architects; there are no engineers. The people here are illiterate.” She also worries that there are “weak legal protections for workers.” Since the investors don’t care about helping Honduras’ economy, they make cities full of work that is not obtainable for the people who live there, only creating more frustration for the people.

His country is neither safe economically nor physically or mentally due to the constant threats of violence from the growing gangs. Luis says that a lot of the gangs that are taking over other countries like El Salvador are also taking over his:

“Yes, for me it is. This is also happening here. There are a lot of minors, and the majority of the gangs are all minors underage, right? For the same reason, to get power, they threaten the families and like that they start bringing in the minors to the gangs. They, uh, uh— that’s the business for them: that’s what they do, recruit minors so they can become bigger, pues. Right, to have more power.”

Families like Luis’ can’t even feel calm in their homes without fearing that the gangs will one day take their boys from them.  The gangs are a part of their everyday life with the government watching the takeover quietly. I asked Luis if anyone in power does anything to help the people from being oppressed. “They do nothing and this always happens, and the people that suffer are the humble people, right, who are poor, who can’t defend themselves.” The gangs know that they can control poor countries like Honduras because its people are poor and easy to manipulate. This produces a much harder life for the natives who have no choice but to leave their homes in order to look for a better life.

Luis says his government plays a big role in the abuses he and his family receive, causing him to temporarily move to the U.S alone. The government is the only one with the power to be able to sustain its people by creating jobs, and protecting them from danger. “Well, uh, for me it’s the government that don’t…that don’t create these projects for work right well that makes a lot of people jobless with nothing to look for.” The government knows its people are suffering greatly from poverty and are being abused by gangs but has done nothing for the last “twenty years.” Even workers in their own government admit to the lack of help received. The news report website USA says, “Drug cartels bribe security forces and judges to look the other way, according to the World Bank. Honduran security chief Oscar Álvarez resigned in September because he said he lacked the resources to stem police corruption.” There are a lot of people taking advantage of Honduras’s weak stability making it only worse and affecting only the people at the bottom of the economic system. After facing poverty for so long, many people like Luis decide to head north for money, only to face more danger.

Luis knew the journey to the U.S would be difficult considering the stories he had heard from past migrants, so he decided not to risk bringing his family along. He didn’t quite know how risky it would be until he made his own journey, and after the second trip he says, “ Well, uhh, how do say? Well, for me it was very hard, very hard having to make it back here in this country for the reason of how you get treated during the journey” The journey was made worse by the people who control the paths into America, the whole system that is made to get the most money out of the immigrant without a care for if they make it alive or not. By now Luis figured that this journey was going to be too dangerous to bring all his family with him. Even the people (Coyotes) who were supposed to be guiding him would take advantage of his desperation. “Well, we arrived in Macale. There we stayed for a moment shut in again. Sometimes we only ate for a while everyday, but we were locked in without nothing again.” Luis explains that for the second time the coyotes kidnapped him and others, leaving them naked, cold, and scared until a family member could pay the fine to let him go on the rest of the journey.

No matter how hard the situation is in Honduras, Luis and his family would never want to live anywhere else. They love their country so much and for this reason the Honduran people are hopeful and patient waiting for better days to come. Luis knew that he wouldn’t want to be permanently away from his home so he decided to come alone to be able to earn the money they needed as fast as possible to make his stay in the U.S. shorter. Hein de Haas and Tineke Fokkema from Demographic Research, authors of “The effects of integration and transnational ties on international return migration intentions,” which sets out to explain several theoretical interpretations of factors that make migrants intentions to leave and return, support the statement of Constant and Massey that says:

Interpretations associated with conventional neoclassical theory assume that although migrants may leave spouses or children at home, their goal is generally to achieve higher lifetime earnings through permanent settlement abroad. Migrants are therefore willing to endure long separations until arrangements can be made for family reunification, which remains the ultimate goal. (757)

They explain that when a parent leaves their child behind it gives them greater motivation to work hard to make their child’s life better, but to also be able to go back home and be reunited with their family. The theory addressed describes the situation that Luis goes through with his family, which he left behind as way of keeping them safe. Since giving them a better life is his goal, he is not planning to stay in the U.S. for too long.

When people like Luis come to the United States they only have one objective: to stay working for as little time as possible with the greatest amount of savings to bring back home to their families. My research partner’s growing poverty due to the lack of basic government support and protection from conquering gangs, robbing the people of the little they have; made him decide to migrate to the U.S. to work. While some might think that Louis should have stayed in his country and try to solve his problem with his own government, he and his people have been patient about receiving their government help and can’t afford to wait for any further response. There are a lot of people in Honduras facing poverty and threats from the government and rising gangs.

Works Cited

Winders,Jamie. “Representing the Immigrant: social movement, political discourse, &

immigration in the U.S South” Southeastern Geographer 51.4 (2011): 596-


Agren,David. “Honduras suffocating in grip of drug violence and poverty” U.S.A TodayNews. U.S.A Today, 3 June 2012. Web. 17 Nov. 2016. http://USAToday30.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-03-06/honduras-dr

De Haas, Hein, and Tineke Fokkema. “The Effects of Integration and Transnational Ties            on International Return Migration Intentions.” Demographic Research 25 (2011): 755.Academic OneFile. Web. 5 Dec. 2016.

Graham, Elspeth, and Lucy P. Jordan. “Migrant Parents and the Psychological Well-Being of Left-Behind Children in Southeast Asia.” Journal of Marriage and Family 73.4 (2011): 763-87. Google Scholar. Web. 2 Dec. 2016.

Schmalzbauer, Leah. “Family Divided: The Class Formation of Honduran Transnational Families.” Global Networks 8.3 (2008): 329-46. Ebsco. Web. 8 Dec. 2016.

Kroth, Maya. “The Coast of Honduras Could Be the Site of a Radical Experiment:.” ForeignPolicy (2014): 60. GALE. Web. 27 Nov. 2016.

Conover, Ted. Coyotes: A Journey through the Secret World of America’s Illegal Aliens. 1rst ed. New York: Random House, 1987. Print.

CIA. “Honduras.” Central Intelligence Agency. U.S.A Gov., 2016. Web. 18 Nov. 2016.<https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ho.html&gt;.

First 30 min. of interview:

What’s your name and where are you from?

Hello my name is Luis Rodriguez and I was born in Honduras,

How do you feel today on this day?

J:well uh I feel good, thanks to god for being here, thank god who has given me health and strength to keep moving forward

Why did you decide to move into the U.S for the first time.

J: well uh my motive and reason on why i made my decision to leave my country was because in my country life is very hard economically, there’s no work and well you can’t live well like that

Why did you decide to leave your family behind and leave to the U.S alone?

J: well to be honest i took this decision like I said to come to this country for the motive to .. to give an opportunity to offer a better future for my family right, for my kids and because in  our country it’s hard to live life

How did it feel to leave your family behind for a while?

Well umm, i felt very sad right , mainly  nobody would like to leave their family and kids right, alone but for the same reason right to give them a better future. Coming to fight in this country to give a better future to the next generation

How did your family feel when you first told them the news about migrating to the US.?

J: well uh when they realized right when i arrived at this country to were really happy well they gave god thanks because thanks to him I accomplished to make it to this country and well uh economically our family will be better of

How did you enter the U.S the first time you entered?

J:  well um I entered illegally right because it’s very difficult to come to this country right risking life a lot in this journey but sometimes the necessities come in our country and with all the violence there is , a lot of gangs bringing fear to our homes, soon makes the decision to come over here knowing that the journey is very difficult t,

Yes, if you can tell us specifically how you entered?

Well uh i entered like every other illegal crossing the border with coyotes right  that sometimes kidnap us and .. and like i say well uh you run a lot of risk

When you first entered what was the first thing you wanted to do or accomplish?

J: well first I came to this country and the first thing I did is give  thanks to God thanks to him I made it to this country, because without him we aren’t nothing and thanks to him I came to this country with the objective of pushing my family forward and help out my family economically

So I know this is your not your first time coming here, you already accumulated some money and went to visit your family before right?

J: ahh Yes well I worked hard and fought hard and made a little savings and I decided to go back to my family

How was it like to be able to see your family again?

J: well uhh obviously right for me was a feeling full of happiness right my idea wasn’t to come back so fast but I had my children eh over there in my country and I wanted to see them so bad
How did you decide to use your savings back home with your family?

J: well uhm yea like I tell you well I made my little earnings right, and with this, I tried to build them a roof over their heads so that they could at least have a home right because over there it’s difficult there’s some people who don’t even have a house there and well with the little I earned I accomplished making them a house

Can you further describe the situation in Honduras?(how hard it is to live their?

J: yea like i tell you it’s really difficult to live in Honduras first because of the amount of violence there is a lot of crime going on. Secondly there isn’t a lot of job programs or any jobs at all it’s hard to find job at all right so sometimes one takes the decision, uh not only me millions of people take the decision to leave the family to give them a better future right

Do you think that there isn’t many jobs because the government does not do anything or what do you think is the biggest cause to this ?

J: well uh for me it’s the government that don’t .. that don’t create these projects for work right well that makes a lot of people jobless with nothing to look for ,

What type of violence is there?

J: well ehh  there’s a lot of violence that exist the kidnapping, the gangs there are a lot of gangs and like I tell you sometimes one risks to come and leave our children there our children that are growing up, and it scares me right for my children, you already know that there is always people that that always try to make others go in the wrong path just like them so that is what happens all these gangs try to recruit a lot of minors right and this is what exists a lot in our country a lot of gangs robbers and well all of that

I have heard of the gangs in El Salvador that instead of the government running it’s them taking over, and they kidnap a lot children to put them in their gangs and do you think this is what’s happening in Honduras right now?

J: Yes for me it is, this is also happening here, there are a lot of minors, and the majority of the gangs are all minors under age right for the same reason to get power, they threaten the families and like that they start bringing in the minors to the gangs, they uh uh that’s the business for them that’s what they, recruit minors so they can become bigger pues. Right to have more power

Yes, and if one of the gangs tried to get your family or your children what would you try to do ?

J: well uh for real real that would never even cross my mind think of such thing right I only pray to God that he takes protects my family and cares for them I always think of my children, well right now there studying in school and for that motive I came to this place right, in our country uhh I would not be able to give my children the education they need so well my children go straight to the house from school and I always advice them that they always come straight home from school because of the dangers, and like I tell you I think about that I can only ask God that he takes care of my family and that never happens

How much do you communicate with your family?

J: eh well eh I communicate with them often not daily right but yes often mostly to advise them right because my first child is already a young man and I have to advice him a lot

When you were already in back in Honduras from your first trip here why did you decide to come back to the U.S?

J:  well for the same reason right I decided to return to my country because I wanted to see my family after a long time of not seeing them right and you know that over the money does not last well I build my family a home and we’ll my earning started disappearing until they finished so then i made the decision to come back to the U.S

How hard was it to return to the U.S for the second time?

J: well uh for me it was very difficult very difficult because like i said i come with a coyote and he only robbed me of all the little money i had and i was sent back right the immigration got me and i had to back home and there i made the decision to come try again because i had already lost all my money so i had to come back well uh thank god on this trip I made it to the U.S

How did end making to the U.S this time?

J: well eh yes the same way, i had to pay for another coyote right and like I said money doesn’t last and the same thing in Honduras if you have a little money and want to build a business or something to survive and like i said again the gangs don’t let us work safely well when they see the people barely start to work and they are already trying to do impuesto guerra” charge a fee for working and that’s makes a lot of people decide to leave because over there the gangs don’t even let you work right

Does the government do anything to help its people from these gangs?

J; well this has been happening for years and the government  doesn’t do nothing, honestly they do nothing and and this always happens and the people that suffer is the humble people right who can’t defend themselves

If you could describe the worst trip you had while trying to make it to the U.S?

J: well uhh how do say well for me it was very hard very hard having to make it back here in this country for the reason of how you get treated during the journey uhh well we first put in a container by the coyote put many of us in a container and in our way it broke. It was hard to breath and there was like 80 people .. a lot of people were fainting there was no oxygen , we were in there 3 full days without food  only water until we got to the border. There we were in a house practically kidnapped because they had us in a random house without clothes only underwear so we wouldn’t escape supposedly, they wanted more money from us, then with guidance we had to cross the river, well we arrived in “Macale” there we stayed for a moment shut in again, sometimes we only ate for a while everyday, but we were locked in without nothing again, then they let us go and made us walk to Houston and yea we suffered a lot because we had to keep running from immigration and eventually lost our coyote who left us, I reunited only with 3 other men so then me and the rest were left in the desert without nothing but we had to keep walking and with a phone we were being guided by the coyotes we walked a lot through the desert without eating drinking and the thirst was so real that we drank our own sweat the thirst we couldn’t handle and we found a lot of dead people on our way which made us more desperate but like i say with the help of God we survived because we ran the risk of becoming one of those skeletons but God is big and thanks to him well uhh we made it were we planned to make it and the coyote called us a car to Houston, and from the same happened we were brought into a house and had us there kidnapped naked left in a room locked, our family had to pay a lot of money in order for them to let us go, right we had to pay or else i don’t know what woulda happened.

So they only told you guys about the first part of the money not the rest right?

J: yes they only told us about the first amount that’s only one thing but then when one on their way it’s another thing

What were you thinking throughout your whole journey?

J: well uh in reality when one is in this type of journey a lot of things are running through your mind right mostly about our family because one comes suffering but you’re also thinking about what can be happening to your family so all of that is in our mind and one doesn’t know what’s going to happen in the journey bc a lot of people have misfortunes like a rattle snake was almost going to bite me once there venomous snakes that a lot of people have died from their bite so all this comes across one’s mind right what could happen to us during the journey but like i say GOD is big and thanks to him we made it and survived, we always had to think positive have faith in God and that we would make it out and like i said we were walking for a very long time in the dessert day and night you could imagine what was going on through our heads right and plus seeing all these dead bodies lying around in the path, one starts thinking  but like i said with a positive mind god will comfort and guide us

So did your partners also stay positive or was their thoughts different?

J: well uuu well in a sudden moment they do right but uhh we support each other, in my case there was 4 of us, all four of us men united well gave each other strength, thank to god all 4 of s survived, but there was a moment when two of them couldn’t take it any longer, they didn’t want to keep walking right so then like i say God was always with us and uh uh we came across a highway and i don’t know i went walking along the road and its like God made us find water in that highway because I saw a flag of the red cross and I saw a blue bin that said water right so I desperately started running for it and i found two gallons of water my partners didn’t even notice so i went towards them right and when they see me with the two water bottles right ehh well they were so happy so happy when they saw me with water because it is our life basically we all need it and there was no water anywhere else nothing, and thanks to God he put us that water and thanks to that water, thanks to the red cross that put it there thanks to that we survived

And from there did that give them hope to keep going?

Jose: yes yes because we drank water right we took a break to relax and tried to use the water wisely so it can last, we tried to take care of it because we did not know how much longer we were going to walk apart from what we had already walked right and well we cared for the water so much that we were drinking it little by little to last and still like that our water finished and we kept walking and thanks to God when we arrived at the objective they picked us up we were done because we had been walking for almost two more days without water, right

Did you guys not think about the idea of asking for help from a car in the highway?

Jose: uhh well uhh it would have been the only solution if we hadn’t had found water that would have been the solution to go and ask for help but thanks to God well we found water and decided keep on going right because our objective was to come to this country the United States, that you know that here well thanks to God this is the place of opportunities. To help our family

Where did your journey end to get here, when was the moment you knew you had made it?

Jose: well uhh i felt happy i felt happy and gave God thanks when I came here where my family is where my brothers live in San Francisco once there i knew thanks to God I am now safe right

Being here now what is your path that you are trying to take now?

Jose: no well uh well my dream like all illegals  right well my dream is work right to work to push my family forward right more than anything my children right to support my children and give them education because I know that her the little that I get over there in Honduras is plenty and only like that only  can i give education to my children and my goal to keep moving my children forward, to prepare them well more than anything is why I took the decision to come for my children, to be something in life right

Do you have any sort of fear of getting deported while working here?

Jose: well yes I do have fear of  getting caught and  deported because I know I am an illegal and what I did is illegal and I know anything can happen at any moment.

Do you think that its true that this country gives opportunities to everyone, ex immigrants?

Jose: well in reality yes, well in my case yes i know its the country of opportunities right ehh well here i know that no matter here there is jobs lots.



Twas Africa


Twas Africa

by Tiffany Brown, January 2016

       A continent known for its most outstanding scenery and land that is “richly endowed with natural resources,” according to Michael M. Ogbeidi, an Associate Professor in the department of History and Strategic Studies at the University of Lagos, Africa, has experienced what Michael describes as a “phenomenon of corruption.” Ogbeidi captures the fact that the fundamental geological features that would benefit a continent so rich in soil as Africa should give it the opportunity to thrive. The cause of this economic plummet, which he describes as a “phenomenon of corruption,” concludes that the permanent effect of corruption has demised and depleted the country’s value and worth in the world economic race and in political prominence. On the soil of Africa is where a timeline of bloodshed and colonization has taken place. Like many continents, there will be rises and falls, but one like Africa often catches onlookers and outsiders’ attention. In an interview with Donald Yawube, an immigrant of Lagos, Nigeria, he conceptualizes his personal views of his home country and the regimen of colonization that changed Africa, and his views of America, where he now resides. One of the main themes that arose constantly in this interview was the world corruption and pollution that exists in society, school systems and politics. Not only is this a global epidemic, but also the root problem and illness that infects Africa’s success is also a key factor through which some countries thrive. Donald understands from his migration from Africa to America that there is much more corruption that has been dispersed throughout other countries, beginning in Africa. His knowledge from being a native inhabitant and scholar leads him to his point that Africa has been lead to be distorted and reframed. However, though Africa has become a “third world” continent, the values and beliefs of the African culture still thrive through its people. Donald’s beliefs, ethics and values have given him a prominent view when looking at society and its downfalls. In an arrangement of three poems, I have conceptualized and intertwined the themes and clear points that Donald made throughout our interview. His driven purpose for coming to the United States was to succeed and venture through the diversified communities we have to offer, which he was already accustomed to in Africa. When first settling in the Bay Area, Donald faced inhumane scenes that disappointed him and forms of racism that stemmed from corruption in the history of Africa. Now settled in San Francisco, he foresees the world corruption that exists and has formed and affected not only his continent, Africa, but the United States as well. The poems that I have created incorporate the feelings and emotions that the people of Africa, American society and Donald posses; speaking for the voices that are unheard and would stand out if only they were spoken.

Africa has been history’s most prominent example for a continent experiencing such social, cultural, and political strain. It is through Donald’s interview that I truly understood the political corruption and cultural disvalue that would eventually collaborate in the title, “phenomenon of corruption,” which Ogbeidi was talking about. Africa has gone through many hardships because of colonial powers rising up and capitalizing on the land. This period is what The National Academies Press describes as a time when “colonialism had destroyed indigenous democratic values and institutions.” In Africa to this present day, its past values have become sacred and a way of living. Donald felt that this was a time “to root out the corruption that was seriously seeping into society.” Moreover, the corruption did set into society and made its way into politics. Donald says, “the culture of the past history that polluted after the independence of my country and things that led to the civil war led to so many um, ‘racism.’” Colonialism in Africa not only hurt the traditions that Africa thrived on, but also divided its people by color, culture and language. There are a series of situations that polluted Africa’s existence and future, socially and economically. Breaking values and former ways driven by native people of Africa, “colonialism had disrupted these traditional African practices” (The National Academies Press). Some of the values in African society are “based on equality, freedom, and unity, was overshadowed by authoritarian and centralized nature of colonialism” (The National Academies Press). Donald explains that Africa continues to acknowledge the traditional values that were under attack by external factors saying, “We [are] humble with the way we are, yes.” He went on to say that Africa embraced its true way and being. Donald activated this value, to stay humble, from his home country upon arriving to the Bay Area, when confronted by trials and errors that America had. For instance, when Donald began seeking employment and ventured into the retail and customer service fields, he saw that he was depicted by employers because of his accent and place of origin. “Unfortunately, where I came from has a history of financial crime,” Donald explains; “it was kind of hard. It was difficult to try to make people see I am not one of those people.” Employers were taken back by people from Africa because of their history and showed less interest in immigrants from there. “I went to interviews and they say, ‘oh I hear an accent, where are you from?’ And I tell them ‘I’m African or Nigerian,’ and there is always this…this split second look, little twist…or twinkle in the eye like, ‘oooh nooo.’” Donald stated. It was in America that Donald saw how corruption in Africa, which seeped into the societies of his native people, developed a form of racism, signaling him out as he tried to achieve career goals here in America.

They did not want the “modernized world” to interfere their indigenous ways, though later they would be pinned as a “third world” country. This term Donald did not take lightly. “If it is based on history, Africa should be placed as number one! First world, let’s put it this way, Africa had the first civilization before the rest of the world had it.”

America gives an illusory image of its opportunities before immigrants arrive and actually experience the true venture living in America. This too was a situation that Donald encountered after first arriving to America. Although he felt that the United States was a perfect place for him to adapt and transition in, he sought out the well-known “American Dream” and all of its riches that came with it. After asking Donald what would he tell his family and friends in order to encourage them to move to America, he replied, “You can have your dreams come true.” He was also aware that with hard work and dedication, you can make more goals possible to achieve. In a Washington Post article by Senate Representative of Massachusetts Elizabeth Warren, she gives transparency to where the “American Dream” stemmed from: “Across generations, Americans shared the belief that hard work would bring opportunity and a better life.” Even though this statement excluded a number of ethnic groups including African Americans in the beginning stages of its development, it is now evident that in the 21st century, people are globally inclusive for the opportunity to live the “American Dream.” Many immigrants have this perception that all will be fine once arriving and that they will be able to financially support their families. But America is able to convey an image that can be deceiving. Upon arriving to America Donald did catch surprising and shocking scenery, which was unexpected almost to a point of disbelief; instead, he was truly disappointed. This was distasteful, to say the least, for him to witness. Donald believed America would be “all living in one unity,” as he had experienced in Africa. There was more about the San Francisco Bay Area to experience than he perceived prior to his arrival. Donald was amazed by how many homeless people were in the end of city.  One of the trials Donald faced assimilating into American culture was “the ability of physical humanities, from water to good health to the road.” This was his own personal issue, which was important to him, but alongside of this he was introduced to the epidemic of homelessness rates the United States faces. After arriving to Oakland, Donald was quite disappointed explaining that he “saw beggars…homeless people on the street.” One would be amazed that the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development found in its 2013 Annual Report of Homelessness that in California there were 113,952 people that fell in that population. “That was what threw me off,” he added. One might ask that if Donald did not take in positively what America offered, why would he not leave and go home? But when asked about his driven purpose for traveling to live in America, Donald replied, “I’ve heard so much about America.”  It is again the illusory image that media is guilty of. Donald went on to explain how he loved the late Californian rap artist Tupac Shakur’s song “California Love.” “I used to be a big fan of Tupac,” he said as a large grin spread across his face. Donald was not new to the hip hop culture that ventured throughout the West and East coast of the United States, through radios and televisions. Besides, though the culture was nature to him, there was more to be experienced upon arriving to America.  It is evident that throughout history the United States has been the nation-state that holds opportunity indescribably in close proximity, which also is stapled the “American Dream,” a place where one can move from an outside country and choose his or her own destiny: actually achieve the possibilities that their countries do not offer because of political boundaries. Donald, too, was another.

Politics have become the gateway for countries to enter the global race of independence and modernization. It has been Africa’s undeniable history of corruption that has caused disadvantage for them in striving in this competitive trial to successes. The article “The movement Toward Democracy in Africa,” by the National Academies Press, explains that many African leaders and authoritative figures are bitter from the “corruption, repression human rights abuses, and gross economic mismanagement under one-party rule.” During the Cold War, Africa underwent a lot of authoritarian rule over its people and tribes. This in result began the era of neo-colonization, which began the change in cultural, social and economic structure of Africa’s future. “During the cold war, some countries capitalized on superpower competition, seeking military and development assistance” (The National Academies Press) Ogbeidi agrees. The existing world corruption that is identified in school and politics represents one’s country in many territories. It is transparent in politics, which has the largest influence on a country’s stability, how one is able to strive. In response to my question “What are some trials you faced assimilating into American culture?” Donald expresses some of the products from these trials, “like the ability of physical humanities, from water to good health to good roads.”

This is Africa on its way to new heights the world has never seen; after all this is the land of untold richness. Since the days of corruption began in Africa, its people of intelligence strive to take the rightful place it truly deserves in this competitive global race. My poem titled “What is Third World?” conceptualizes this argument of what Africa was, is and will be in the world race of economic and social strength. “If it is based on history, Africa should be placed as number one! First world, let’s put it this way, Africa had the first civilization before the rest of the world had it,” Donald stated in our recent interview. It was because of his strong statement that I developed the foundation of my poem, which truly commemorates Africa’s uprising and rich soil that brought the beginning of life to be.

“Twas it us


where civilization began

where the treetops glanced

over God’s graceful land?”

In this stanza I have brought a rhetorical question to assess the history that Africa holds. Its presence now in today’s society does not hold the same prominence it once did thousands of years ago, before civilization in America even began. Even though it has lost its place of virtue and substance in the national race, it is still the epicenter of life today: known as “The Mother Land.” Through memoir I have brought readers to understand the bloodshed and sorrow the land of Africa has gone through. It has been tormented by external factors only to be capitalized and colonized.

“was thousands of years ago where man came forth?

Then thrown into plight

After birthing new life”

Donald’s interview contributed to this creative poem and the following stanza. “From the culture of the past history that polluted after the independence of my country,” he stated, Africa was the leading example of rich soils and life, but as Donald stated, it went through a catastrophe of situations that did pollute its soil, only to tear away the pride and ownership of the rich land it once was. The corruption set in Africa separated its value from its own people.

“Twas Africa

The first leading land

Now known as a third world

For it has not


Enough since then

Since the time of colonization

Which was counterpart

To deprivation


Critiquing the history of Africa was quite difficult and simplistic all at once. The driving forces that flooded Africa and interceded their traditions and values, led them to be disrupted by corruption and hate for one another. Apartheid is just one of the most violent and tragic results due to colonial forces interfering—when Africans were separated amongst each other by segregating one another by complexion and language. In the poem I conclude that the “plight” was in fact apartheid. It is the corruption that polluted Africa’s well-known name, value and worth. Because of numerous colonies Africa was thrown in a whirlwind that is present today, but finally moving forward still catching up to its own strength.

In conclusion, Donald anticipated America to be the way most imagine—a world of dreams, success, and diversity with respect to each individual’s life. He did understand that there were pros and cons to each country, but the disposition that he was put in upon his arrival made him dissatisfied and disappointed. One would argue that Donald should have never come if he was not ready for the unexpected. But to each his own. Everyone is able to venture under their own risk. Donald has handled his disappointments quite well. In fact, he is the excellent example of a resilient successor that puts forth the diligent hard work to achieve his limitless opportunities. It was not that Africa pushed Donald out like many immigrants are facing at this moment, but that he took a chance to venture and see a whole new world. “I came; I saw; I conquered,” Donald stated during the interview. This he did do even after facing trials of racism and a taste of humanity gone wrong. Each immigrant holds experiences and past relations that help and mold their own perspective. Donald is one that originated from a great place that was torn down by corruption that exists amongst all nations today; he was able to use his country’s values and well-taught lessons that would help him embody and counsel the way to his dreams. When you see an immigrant, please understand that there is a story deep down and there are morals that follow too. We do not all come from the same place, but we are in the same space. What would it take the world to make it a better place? What would the world look like without corruption?

Works Cited

“Political Corruption: Before and After Apartheid.” Jonathan Hyslop. Academia. Web Article. December 2005.

“The Movement Toward Democracy in Africa.” National Research Council. Democratization in Africa: African Views, African Voices. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press, 1992. Doi:10.17226/2041

“Political Leadership and Corruption in Nigeria Since 1960: A Socio-economic Analysis.” Michael M. Ogbeidi. Journal of Nigeria Studies. Vol. 1, Number 2, Fall 2012.

“Third World.” Funk & Wagnalls New World Encyclopedia (2015): 1p. 1. Funk & Wagnalls New World Encyclopedia. Web. 16 Dec. 2015.

“How to revive the American Dream.” The Washington Post. Elizabeth Warren, Bill de Blasio. May 6.

Donald Yawube. Interviewee

            Sample Transcripts


T: Okay, What is your name?

S: My name is Steven America___ or Donald Yawube

T: How long, let’s see…how old are you?

S: I’m 38

T: Okay and where are you from?

S:I am from Nigeria. West coast Afr–, of Africa

T: Okay, ow long have you been in the United States?

S: I’ve been in the United States nine years now.

T: And how old were you?

S:I was like twenty-nine when I got here.

T: What are some trials you faced assimilating into American culture?

S: Wow, trials…hm…like the ability of physical humanities, from water to good health to good roads. Uh, from the culture of the past history that polluted after the independence of my country and things that lead to the civil war led to so many quote unquote uhm, “racism”. There’s so many factors.

T: Alright. Uhm, would you feel that you faced many of these trials early on when you first arrived.

S: Uh, no. No, I did experience a bit of a difficulty in terms of uhm, ev-ev-even though there is the fact I am coming from Africa, I had one experience…no, two experiences where I observed some form of racism. I know said given the fact uhm, the nature of where I am coming there was a look of this thing that was cut across eyes when not another African as well or not another immigrant so yea.

T: Okay, I want to go back onto your experiences, but let’s go to your childhood memories.

Uhm, what would be your favorite place in your home country?

S: So I grew up in Lagos, which is which was then the capitol but where I am originally from. It’s a village, I love going to the farm with my grandparents and my cousins. I love going hunting. Those were to childhood memories I hold very dear to my heart.

T: So, a lot of farming hunting

S: You could say a lot more of farming.

T: Okay, So back to your childhood, Is there any place in America that reminds you of home?

S: Yes, uh

T: Or where?

S: Huah, San Francisco, that’s why I chose San Francisco, because before I got here I wanted to choose a place where there is so much diversity that reminded me of home. And San Francisco just kind of crossed as that. California actually kind of cross as that. It’s funny really cause there is so much diversity coming out of California SF or the bay area, there is no, I call it the melting pot of the whole world.

T: Yes, it definitely is. So when you say a lot of diversity, in what aspect, would it be culture, would it be music, fashion?

S: All of the above.

T: All of the above?

S: All of the above. There has been an intricate connection between all of that. You know there is Asians, there’s uhm you know there is Persians, there is Africans as well. you know there is African Americans and Caucasians. And they are all these different…they all living in one unity. They are all living in oneness. disregard the skin color, personalities, or background in terms of ethnicity. you know San Francisco is for me or really bay area is more who are you and what are you bringing to make this, you know state or make this place a better place. so yea, uh, that’s the reason why i, i really love San Fancisco or the bay area.

T: Okay, so in…speaking in general…what was your sole driven purpose to coming to America? think back 9 years ago, what was it about America that made you think I have to go there?

S: Well, you, I, uh…I’ve heard so much about America.

T: I have heard so much about Africa!

(both laugh)

S: I’ve heard so much about America, of course, I’ve heard bad things about America, but I believe there is always a good thing about some place. uh, and i wanted to go, you know for me it was more…more of a journey. For me, it was more of an accomplishment. I wanted to say “I’ve been there” and wanted to see what it was all about. I use to be a big fan of Tupac and I remember, I use to jump up to the song “California Love”.

T: (sings) California love.

S: (giggles) yeah, I use to sing it everyday. Everyday. In fact, me and my friends would try to imitate Dr. Dre and Tupac. For me it was being at home and that’s what coming out here was for me. Home.

T: Okay, so it sounds like assimilation was not a hard thing for you to do. Sounds like the least of your-

S: No..

T: worries I would say?

S: No, it wasn’t. There weren’t any worries at all because, uh, it was…I would say there hasn’t been trials or setbacks, no…there will always be a setback, there will always be some set…well I wouldn’t say setback I’d say a drawback, yes. uhm..

T: uhm, so, how did your family feel or how did they feel about you assimilating into American culture?

S: ahahaha…haha…uhh, my fam-…well…they happy for me. They happy I am here. Though they do wish I would come back home, but uhm..as long as I’m happy and they trust my ability and my sense of judgment. They’re content, they know I am happy, they want me to be here. they’d love for me to be there, you know, I tell them it would be nice for me to expand the family name. come out here, you know and make,,,and put our family flag, like okay…i was here. “I came, I saw, I conquered”…so to speak.

T: Let’s see I want you to kind of go a little deeper into that if that’s okay. So what do you mean exactly when you say “I came, I saw, I conquered”? What is your objective of that- well no… What would you tell your family to encourage them to get here, the land that you love so much, what would they be able to look forward to in America other than what is in Africa?

S: You can have your dreams come true.

T: Okay…

S: With hard work, dedication in this country you definitely could have your dreams come true. It’s against the…you know it’s against the bad job in my country where if you do not have someone in a higher place; and I’m speaking about corruption, in highest level as far as from as high as the top to as well as the bottom, yes. But here your hard work will definitely pay out. Your hard work, your dedication, your faith yeah your dream will definitely come true.

T: So do you feel like in Africa your very limited based on your socio-economic status?

S: yes. yeah, yes, your very…uh..there is a very huge limitation in Africa. you know if you’re rich you’re rich and if you’re poor you’re poor.

T: That also seems to be the case here in America, “if you’re rich you’re rich, if you’re poor you’re poor”. So how does one even move up or try to put faith in being in a higher class?

S: You know somebody once said, “if you’re not born into a rich family then you can never be rich”.

T: mhm…do you know who said that?

S: uh…I can’t remember who exactly, uhm…but..uhm..in other countries or unless you want to play unless you don’t want to play. In a sense where you have to do the things they do to move up or you don’t. You know, the choice is yours. So it’s…it’s two ways, either you were born into a rich family or you were made rich. you can make yourself rich. you know, you can either do the things that those other people are doing in order to be rich or, you know that’s if you are born into a rich family or a rich status.

T: right, so what would you say would improve the conditions at home, in your home country?

S: you know, i do believe it will take time, but only if there- only if there’s seriousness based on everybody who’s very, very much determined to want to make a change. But um…corruption has to be rooted out. even for the men…even for the men-mentality of…of everybody. because it is so imbedded into everybody’s mind and it’s the right thing, it’s okay to be corrupt and it’s not…it is not okay to be corrupt because…because then you’re not looking in the longevity of the upcoming future which is kids and what are we planning for them. And I seen it time and time again where government officials, when their in office, yeah everything is peachy and everything is nice and good for him and the family and them and the family or the family members but soon as they step out of office; the next person who comes in who wants, you know, a better life for their family. but that’s not what it’s supposed to be it’s about, you know, serving your country. I believe uhm…uhm John F. Kennedy once said, “Ask not what a country can do for you but what you can do for a country”. that, so…that person that man has always been, for me, an inspiration like, okay.

T: (Asks to speak last few sentences a little louder)

S: He’s a..he…John F. Kennedy has been you know, about what he said has always stuck with me…about what he said a country can do for you. that for me, as you know…there is no good to honor when you’re doing right for your country. so what can i do for my country you know in fact corruption is at its highest level. you know say if you want to start something, you start from the very top you don’t start from the bottom. uh, proper election, free and fair election…uhh proper education on the highest level. even if their raised, yah people want to go to school, but free and fair election and electing those with the right mentality. about what can take the country far and beyond.

T: you know speaking about corruption, uuhm, that Africa goes thru what about the corruption in America, we see it in politics, we see it in school. Our school systems. We see the majority, well this is my opinion, and from what history has shown, that we are facing as Americans and Africans, that we face a…a diversion between races, power and wealth. uhm, so how do you feel about that? its. did that…from history in America which stemmed from corruption how do you feel about that. and the comparison with the corruption in Africa to here?

D: now, in comparison…uhm in Africa…let’s start with Africa for instance, so you go to school you graduate with flying color, honors and all. and because of the fact that maybe you’re from a certain race you won’t get a very competitive job. Or say you want to join the army after a certain rank you can not get promoted. okay, when I first got here. When I first got to United States, all I had absorbed, yes I did absorb that there was a difference, but one way to really fight, the one way to really fight corruption is education. education, one way to….educated enough to know what right is and fight for a rights legitimately because it’s right there in the constitution. there is no way you can not say the constitution is put in place to deny certain people, some people try to you know, no some people try to twist the constitution was aligned for so it’s for you so if you know what your right is and you know your right…its that you educated yourself. Go to school ask questions. Education is the fundamentals of defeating what other may come your way. They say that “education is light” It is light. Corruption is only darkness. The only way to gravel with that darkness is with education. Time and time again, and I’ll use an example for instance, Obama is president he is an educated man, he went to school, he went…he lead…he went by the book. He became a lawyer…what more can one ask for? He became a lawyer…he became an argumentative lawyer because, you know……where other people are a lawyer…………………he embedded himself into the system. The proper way and fought the system. on the outside. You know they say in my country, amongst my people, they say that um it s the bug that eats the leaf. It lives inside the leaf. And it say the enemy within, it is that kind of mentality. And the good, one of my greatest idols…he used education to fight the British…he used education to fight the British to stand still to give India their liberty, education you know…they ask him, ya know, “why can’t we go over there and fight”. But their bloodshed would lead to more bloodshed. But the way, the truth and the light is education. Uhh,

T: Alright, I believe that…so, what if you were to put. basically…what we generally do in America….or what we all do to fight most the corruption in society and in politics, would you be able to do those things in Africa?

D: yes.

T: to what extent? are there any limitations? are there any consequences?

D: officials would come forth by the uh…

T:for educating yourself and advocating…

D: the limitation…would probably be, first and foremost capital….where the fund is necessary to pursue such goal given the limitation of employment for that obvious reason, yes capital would probably number one. Two, uhm, once one has a capitalist and support in general…to fight it all the way then yes its possible. to fight it all the way to the very top, you know all the way up to the presidency then it is possible…and all the way up to the supreme court in order to change the whole general government mentality as to what corruption is…the evil of what corruption is.

T: would you be faith based? are you faith based?

D: yes.

T:one of my friends from Nigeria says that you can’t speak up as much as you can in America, that there are consequences …would you say that as bias, or would you agree or is there a certain class order that has the given rights or opportunities to do so?

D: you can speak up! you can definitely speak up in Africa, you can definitely speak up in Nigeria, you know there is towards the government you definitely can…it’s about are you saying the right things that need to be said? …that’s not bias, because a lot of the time people come up and that’s the problem with Africa. In 19…uhm…prior to…some of the incidents that led to the civil war was corruption. Corruption that…you know corruption that they wanted to root out for once and for all that was led into being…into being a tribal thing. being a racist thing. but that was not the context of what it was supposed to be…it was to root out the corruption that was seriously seeping into society. yes, you can speak up, just have to say…it has to be an unbiased like you want to say. speak your mind, say the truth. not no…regardless of whatever is going on or…or maybe…even if it’s your brother. see that’s the funny thing people have family in politics and don’t want to speak up. because either or they’re benefiting some way some how. it is in africa, it’s also it’s everywhere in the whole world. but yes, you know…when you see a spade, call a spade a spade. yes you definitely can speak up, people don’t want to speak up against their own brother. would rather speak against somebody else. it’s gone from what’s right, what we do. what’s right, okay i should speak up the truth okay what should we do, okay i don’t want to speak up because that’s my brother in office. or that’s my cousin, that’s a friend of mine we both have gone to school together so i don’t want to….NO…you can speak up, speak up and say what is the truth. do not contest with tribalism or waste or a certain section. when you speak up and speak up as one in general in actuality….as Nigeria, as one then yes, it can be done. I do not think….

T: okay, i think you should run for mayor (both laugh) perfect candidate. So, I want to hear more about your mindset before America and your mindset after. are there any thoughts or perceptions of America that changed when you got here?

D: I was, i would say i was a bit disappointed when i got here. Yes, a little bit I was disappointed…a little bit. Simply because the fact I was, uhmm…I was totally taken aback when I found out, I saw beggars, homeless people on the street. that was what threw me off completely, yes I was totally….

T: And what was the first state or city that you arrived to?

D: uhm…San Francisco…oh…Oakland.

T: Oakland? okay, so you saw this in Oakland?

D: i saw that in sf , and I was surprised at first, then my surprisement turned into disappointment.

T: yea

D: i remember…i remember one day and i saw forgive me for using this word…I saw some streetwalkers it was on the international boulevard in Oakland…

T: that is what they are, they are prostitutes…

D: and I was…I was shocked…I was very shocked.

T: that they were…was it the fact that they were so boisterous or just out there? what was it?

D: that it was so obvious. that’s why i was kind of…it wasn’t the promiscuity…it was just that it was so obvious. it was and country to believe…what everybody believes back home…i know things are not as the way it always is. but i was not expecting that. i was not expecting to be hit that much. so yes

T: in America…there are a series of thing. people take pride in a lot of things here, but was this perception of America given from media in Africa ?….

D: yes…

T: is that what it was?

D: yes! uhh, you know the media portrays Africa as third world and I always…I find that whether..

T: and can you define that?…

D: I would see…see I’m currently trying to find out what third world is, and in my book how can you define the word third world….are you basing it on socialism or on capitalism? if it is based on history, Africa should be placed as number one! first world, let’s put it this way, Africa had the first civilization before the rest of the world had it. so you say third world, if it’s a country like United States that is less than 200 years old. every country in Africa is more than a thousand years old. more than ten thousand years old, more than twenty thousand years old! There are just set in their ways, other countries are modernized, that is “modernized world”….yes. but we love walking, we humble with the way we are, yes. we dress for the climate, I’m not going to wear pants and jacket you know in 120 degrees. no! if i want to walk around in my loin…hahaaahaa

T: say that again, what was it?

D: if I want to walk around in my loincloth ,ahaha, and go hunting then…

T: what’s another word…so to speak an American word for loincloth…

D: uhhm…walking around naked, so to speak. but, you know the truth is uhh…

T: so, okay, so i got off track…there is so much, running in my mind about things…now we are in this phase that you’re here in your early years…

D: yes…

T: age 29…right?…were you caught by America’s culture? Were you brought in to the…cuz what do you…let’s se…how about this…what do you see that was America’s culture when you first got here? For your generation or trends?

D: you know for my generation…uhm..for my generation i’d say it’s much easier as compared to those that are compared to the generations before me. One is..i guess it wasn’t hard for me to blend in you know, because of my open mindedness, uhm…because my father use to say that, “when you’re in Rome behave like the romans.” So for that mentality or that mindset already there I…when I…as soon as I got on the plane I said okay whatever is the culture is in America I will try to i will do my best to pick out the best of the good ones…and learn from the bad ones. take a few lessons so i would not get caught up in the bad ones and get better with the good ones and get better with the good ones. Go to the best of the best. So it wasn’t very hard for me, you know, to try and blend in…let’s use that word…now for some people …I’ve had friend who came to the United States prior and all ran back two years in the world…some were disappointed…they were all uhh…shocked. I guess because, you know, they were not open minded about the situation in which they found themselves in so it was more a culture shock.

T: So since you came here with such an open mind….was there anything besides the…the…the women, the prostitution…

D: the homelessness…

T: the homelessness…was there any situations that you were put in for the American culture that you saw yourself…that changed your aspect of Africa or what you did in Africa that you kept? Did I say that right? Maybe I should rephrase it.

D: Rephrase it.

T: Were there ways, values…and beliefs that you left behind to assimilate into American culture? Once you got here…and what would those be?

D: Okay…uh..some cultures that have laid behind…Id say…cultural oneness. culture of family.

T: Can you give me…can you give me a story or a situation that you went through or that happened prior to coming to America or one that changed? Like how was oneness was so effective in Africa…whereas in America it is…maybe divided…

D: The mentality, the people…when I say oneness uh…if…if we grew up in the same neighborhood or we grew up…we don’t need to necessarily grow up in the same neighborhood for me to treat you like my own brother…In Africa, I don’t need to know you to give you my last meal. Or i don’t need to know you to give you the shirt off of my back, but that was something that was totally different here…very different.

T: People tend to be very selfish.

D: Selfish…self centered…you know, uhm…inconsiderate. It all towards another person…towards the less fortunate. You know, you see someone on the street, you know this person is hungry…why not take out all that you have in your wallet. why not give him your twenty bucks, yeah. And or take out ten and say, “hey take this, go buy some food, and here you go.” What about a shirt that you’re not wearing anymore, or you know, some stuff that you don’t make use of anymore… give to the person and say, “here it is yours.” Why give America– why give and you say your giving and at the end of the year you claim your taxes and claim as though as tax deductible…you know that means you’re not giving freely. you know, I grew up in a culture where for me it was, i can go to a total stranger and ask you if you have not eaten anything and i could…or would even give you my food…give you food to eat as compared to you just come to steal it from me. No, stealing is forbidden. Here i know it is, you know, the reason why people steal is because nobody will give them…nobody is willing to share with them. Nobody is going to ask somebody, “have you eaten?”. Nobody is willing to look at their fellow human being and say, “that this is a human being”

T: would you say that humanity is losing…uhm..

D: humanity is losing face.

T: in America or in the world as a whole?

D: from Africa to America i will say, yes. In America, it is losing its face. they are no longer being our brother’s keeper. that is against to what is supposed to be. Yes, we are diversified, yes we are uh uh culturized…but still even amongst people here…it’s…it’s different. you know you can really tell there’s a big difference and that’s not how it’s supposed to be.

T: i agree….I believe that America is very prideful everything is for “me, me, me”…for the better, for my pride in how i do things…and i am an American although i do have ways that are faith based…and related that drive me to be uh an outsider of American society so would you say that, you have been..are…would you say that you’re on the outside looking in? so would you say you have fully assimilated to the American culture, the ways…the beliefs?

D: no…

T: trends, food…

D: no i will say…i wont say i have assimilated with it, i’d say i have taken the best of it…i’ve taken the best of it…that i’m taken the best of it uhm…i speak up against it…i can try…i can try to speak up against it. and hope for the best that people would listen and maybe just try to be you know, be oneness..be you know be what they ought be…not what they think they should because who am i? i am nothing if you have been poor.

T: okay so we talked about that, let’s talk a little bit about your work…how much time do you have?

D: about five minutes…

T: okay let’s talk about your area of work, your career field…so when uhm…what do you do now?

D: okay uh, everything…even right now i’m actually seeing if i can get a job as a security guard. see if I like it..a nonlethal security guard. i have a job interview set up Friday i think…if it comes…well i consider myself a um…an entrepreneur.

T: are there any uhm…anything that you run other than looking for a security job? or was there a particular field that you went into when you first arrived to America?

D: retail.

T: retail.

D: and i loved it.

T: did you face any challenges?

D: uh yes…yes i did…unfortunately where i came from has a history of financial crimes so it was…you know they have a negative history of financial crimes. so, it was …it was kind of hard. it was difficult…try to make people see I am not one of those people…I’m not one of those perpetrators of that kind of crime, I’m a different person…

T: so you see that this was an appearance that society…or businesses saw Africans…

D: yeah…society, went to interviews and they say oh i hear an accent, where are you from? and I’ll tell them I’m African or Nigerian, and there is always this ..this split second look, little twist…or twinkle in the eye…like ooh no

T: so you portray those thoughts to be related to financial issues that Africa has

D: no, it’s not financial issues, in the past my country had some..some uh some people felt it was okay to be involved in financial crime and it really made a very, a not very pleasant look or perspective of my country or my fellow countrymen who were perceived as financial criminals….so it was kind of difficult. but i was lucky enough to get a job in retail…customer service. and it was something i always liked, and what i do…i do act as a consultant for businesses or startup. consultant/research analyst to help them research and help them find…you know they have an idea but they don’t know how to go up on it…or look and see what they have to say about what they want and what they think their goals are and i try to be frontal as to what is achievable because it is one to know one’s achievements but another to know what to achieve.