The Freedom to Dream

The Freedom to Dream

by Anobel Khoushabeh, January 2016

As Max De la Costa began to approach adolescence, the Guatemalan Civil War was raging, resulting in a wide spread of fear, economic turmoil, forced drafting, persecution, and the killing of many people across the country. Without many opportunities left for the future, Max’s parents, Oscar and Lidia De la Costa, decided to leave the country and immigrate to the United States in order to provide a better life for themselves and their two children. During his time in the United States, Max has been exposed to a variety of different experiences that have enabled him to generate his own perspective on the meaning of home and self-identity as a Latino living in the United States.

Growing up in Guatemala, Max was very limited in the extent to which he could prosper as an individual. Even though neither of his parents received decent education, they both understood the fundamental importance of it. His father, Oscar, was a bartender at a community social club and a huge admirer of the American culture and lifestyle. Because Guatemala lacked the proper public school institutions, Max spent a lot of his time as a child playing with friends, and swimming in a variety of different rivers, lakes, creeks, and canals instead of being fully engaged in school. As Max grew older, and the Civil War continued to progress, his father feared that his only son would be drafted into the military and sent to fight a useless and unethical war. The severity of being drafted was a serious fear that lingered above everybody’s heads. When asked about the situation, Max explained that “people were afraid to go to dances, movies, or you could be walking outside in the market and they saw you, and they would just pick you up and put you in a truck and take you.” Fearing for his family, Max’s father left for the United States to help his family make the move, but in the process he was met with an unfortunate injury that left his kneecap broken, forcing him into six months of recovery. As his father was stranded in Guatemala, his mother made the tremendously hard decision to leave behind her son and daughter in order to work in the United States and raise enough money to bring her family north of the border to the States. After spending several years in the United States, Lidia was able to save enough dollars to bring her family over the border. Without much complication, Max and his family spent around two and half weeks crossing Mexico before finally arriving in Los Angeles, California in August of 1988, tucked in the back of a blue F-150 Ford. For Max, leaving home was never a problem because Guatemala never catered to Max, and Max never catered to Guatemala. Without much difficultly for Max, America was now his new home. Finally, after residing in Los Angeles for a while, Max and his family moved up north to the vibrantly diverse city of San Francisco, where he would grow up, assimilate, even greatly admire his new home and self developed identity.

In Guatemala, there are extreme barriers that prevent individuals from upward mobility and social status. Moreover, this lack of opportunities even deprives children of dreaming about a future they desire. Growing up in the United States, we always dreamed as children about whether to be an astronaut, a fireman, or even a super hero; we had the opportunity to dream because we were told that if we put our hearts and minds into something, it could become a reality. For Max, however, growing up in Guatemala could not have been further from this reality. When asked if he had any dreams as a child, Max replied, “As a kid I didn’t have that many dreams because we didn’t have that many aspects of dreams. For most of us, it was to just go to school and have fun, but there were no dreams.” Poverty, a lack of education, and a devastating Civil War growing by the day deprived Max of ever dreaming about a future in which he can see himself on a pedestal. Max never aspired to be anything because the road to his future was already paved without his consent. When reflecting on these social issues in Guatemala, and looking back at that time in his life, Max cannot help but feel a sense of disappointment with his home country. Guatemala was a home that deprived Max of a future, but more importantly, it took away his capability to dream as a child.

The Guatemalan Civil War lasted from 1960-1996, leaving behind decades of devastation and irreversible consequences. According to “Murder, Memory, and the Maya,” by Ashley Kistler, a professor of Latin American Anthropology at the University of Oregon, the Civil War began as a result of the CIA-backed coup that overthrew the democratic government of Guatemalan president Jacobo Arbenz in 1954 (Kistler). Arbenz helped overthrow the “repressive dictator,” Jorge Ubico, who had for years ruled through intimidation and force. In hopes of bringing freedom and equality to the masses, Arbenz implemented an “agrarian reform legislation” that confiscated over four hundred thousand acres of unused agricultural land from the American fruit corporation United Fruit Company. Because of this threat to American investments, the CIA created a coup to overthrow Arbenz, replacing him with General Efrain Rios Montt, who later became personally responsible for the genocide of the Mayan indigenous population that left over 86,000 dead and many more missing (Kistler). The Reagan administration played a critical role in the conflict by implementing a disastrous foreign policy that devastated several nations in Central America. According to “Ronal Reagan: War Criminal,” by Emilio Horner, a political science senior at the California Polytechnic State University, the CIA under the Reagan administration helped smuggle Cocaine to fund the rebel insurgencies that fought for their beneficiaries in Central America (Horner). Horner makes the argument that,

“Post World War II, the United States has subjected millions of people worldwide to a lower quality of life, all because of the devastating impacts of a foreign policy that prefers corporate profit over human dignity. The nation’s ideological pretense of human rights further masks the fact that the United States sponsors state terrorism and a neo-colonial system ruled by fear, while serving the interest of business elites.”

Ironically, the Republicans, who are notorious for their devastating foreign policies that destroy the lives of millions of people around the world, are the loudest opponents of immigration into the United States.

Assimilation and exposure to diversity have allowed Max to see a variety of different cultures and ideas that have helped him shape his own perspective on culture. After his arrival to Newcomer High School in San Francisco in the year of 1991, Max for the first time was exposed to people from all different racial and cultural backgrounds. In Guatemala, Max states, “I never thought that I even had a culture, “ and when describing his experience in the United States he said, “it was just really cool that other cultures existed, and other languages, and people, and faces, features, body, skin color.” For Max, “American culture” means acceptance of other cultures: a unique collaboration of different beliefs that are fabricated together to form a unique belief. American diversity, for many immigrants, is shocking and hard to understand. In this case, however, Max embraced the diversity he witnessed at his new school and through it he has developed an appreciation for diversity and acceptance. By exposing himself to different cultures Max views himself beyond just being a Latino living in America, he is an American of Latino decent with a cultural interpretation that is unique to him.

Cultural differences between American-born and newcomers, immigrants from Central America, for example, are so severe that in many instances they formulate into prejudice, and blunt discrimination. Discrimination has always been a reality for immigrants in the United States; however, it hasn’t always been between from whites onto other ethnicities and races. This is something that many Latino immigrants do not expect or understand when they first arrive in the United States. Because of these repercussions, many will alienate themselves from their own community and culture. For Max, his relationship with the white community has been full of positive experiences; however, his relationship among Latinos has been much more complicated. I asked Max if he was ever exposed to any racial discrimination when he first arrived in the United States, and without surprise his answer was yes. For Max, the discrimination did not come from whites but instead from other Latinos. Without realizing this I asked Max what his perception was on whites, and he responded:

“white people which I didn’t have a problem with, actually I don’t ever remember being discriminated by them. But Latinos were discriminating between Latinos who were born or raised here. Uh, for me because I had a heavy accent, more than now, um, there was this guy who used to call me a wetback, mojito. A Latino himself, he would put his fingers on his tongue, lick them, and then hit his back. That was him letting me know that I’m a wetback.”

This tension between Latinos was very shocking to Max, and because of it his negative perception of his homeland and culture intensified. After witnessing this act of prejudice from his own community, Max eventually pulled himself away from the Latino community and motivated himself to improve his English to assimilate with other races and cultures more thoroughly.

Discrimination within the Latino community is extremely problematic and based on immigration status, language, and social class. According to the Los Angeles Times article by Michael Quintanillna “The Great Divide: They’ve Fled Poverty Even Wars in Their Homelands. Now, Immigrant Children Face Ridicule and Exclusion by Many of Their U.S.-born Latino Classmates,” many newcomer Latinos are subjected to harsh criticism and prejudice by American born Latinos who view themselves as “superior” because they have had the privilege of being born in the United States. The prejudice is at many times focused on indigenous Latinos who have different physical complexions in comparison with whiter toned Latinos. However, the tension also arises from “language barrier coupled with an unfamiliar teen culture (Quintanillna). Ironically, many immigrant children are ridiculed because of their shyness, clothing style, respectfulness to their parents and teachers, and as well as their dedication to academic achievement (Quintanillna). In many schools across the greater Los Angeles area and parts of San Jose California where Latinos are by far the majority, there is serious division between multiple groups such as “the recent lower-income Mexican immigrant; the middle-class Mexican immigrant; the acculturated Chicano kids and the cholo kids, lower-income Mexican Americans” (Quintanillna). This cycle of discrimination within the Latino community is the exact reason why Max felt alienated and eventually separated himself from his culture. Those who were unwilling to accept him as an American only motivated him even more to assimilate and adapt a new sense of identity.

Roman philosopher Gaius Plinius Secundus once said, “home is where the heart it.” The definition of home isn’t one’s birth location; it is where one feels content and safe. For Max, Guatemala might have been where he was born; however, it never felt like home. Many opponents of immigration make the bold argument that newcomers will always feel a sense of attachment to their native country, which prohibits them from ever truly becoming, or feeling American. When hearing Max’s story, this argument is without doubt invalidated. An uncountable number of immigrants feel that the United States is their home, and have a sense of loyalty and patriotism that a native-born might even lack. Especially after witnessing the quality of life in the United States, and being rejected by his own Latino community, Max became hostile towards his own country and in many ways rejected it. After five years of residing in the United States, Max and his family applied for citizenship. During the naturalization interview, Max was asked the critical question: if the United States of America were to ever engage in a military conflict with Guatemala, would Max fight for Guatemala or the United States? His response was dramatic, but completely resonated his feelings at the time towards his home country. Max replied, “In my perspective, you can throw an atom bomb and make a parking out of it. I was uh, very disappointed from where I came from.” It was clear that Max had no intention of ever calling Guatemala home because for him the United States was the home that provided him with the content, security, and opportunities he desired. His heart defined his sense of home, and therefore Max was finally at home.

If home shackles you to confinement, takes away your opportunities and rights, it’s no longer in essence called home. For Max, the United States was a door to many opportunities that he would have never had access to back in Guatemala. From a young age, Max always had a fascination with mechanics and automobiles; however, he never aspired to pursuit this passion because he simply couldn’t. During his time at Newcomer High School, Max enrolled in a trade program that taught him hands on mechanics. From this point on, he knew exactly what he wanted to do, and with this passion at hand he landed himself a job at a mechanic shop on Ocean in San Francisco. Max married, had a child, divorced, and even joined the Marines in 2001. His determination to continue to progress has never ended, and at this moment Max is currently enrolled at City College of San Francisco with his son Alberto to continue taking advantages of the opportunities given to. As the years went by his hostility towards Guatemala gradually decreased as he began to see the world in a much broader perspective, however, for Max Guatemala is still a place of memory, not a place he can call home. I asked him what his feeling was towards his birth country, and he responded back,

“I went back like almost ten years after, um yah, ten years I went back, things had changed. Um, but you know, as they say the more they change the more stay the same. That’s how it is now. There is more Democracy now, the Civil War has ended, but now there is more gang violence, uh more than the Civil War was. There is more Capitalism, freedom. It’s a good place to live in certain places, but uh, it is not some place that I would go die at. Yah, it was home, but it’s not home now.”

The United States had given Max what Guatemala had taken away: it had given him the opportunity to progress himself, to provide himself with a life that was not possible back in his birth county.

The meaning of home and identity are significantly difficult to understand for they vary among every individual. Through his immigration experience, Max has realized that home and culture aren’t confined within boundaries but are elastic and prone to change. Home is where one feels content and safe, and identity is what an individual defines it to be. Being an American Latino is beyond the literal phrase, it is a collaboration of experiences that create a unique identity. Those who spew anti-immigration rhetoric to defend the American identity are mistaken. To be an American is to be you, to be free beyond the borders of race, ethnicity, culture, or religion. This is the fundamental idea that brings millions to our shores. It is this very idea that Max cherishes and implements in his life. For Max, home is where there is opportunity to grow, safety for his family, and the comfort to be oneself regardless of what others label you. Like home, the identity we relate with is one that makes us feel content. If we can learn anything from Max is that people grow, learn, experience, and collaborate ideas to form their own way of life. We all come from different backgrounds, but in the end we are all humans seeking a life of fulfillment and purpose. 

Work Cited

Kistler, S. Ashley. “Murder, memory, and the Maya.” Latin American Research Review. 49.1   (2014): 251+. Academic OneFile. Tue. 15 Dec. 2015.

“Ronald Reagan: War Criminal.” UWIRE Text 27 Oct. 2015: 1. Academic OneFile. Tue. 15    Dec. 2015.

Quintanila, Michael. “The Great Divide: They’ve Fled Poverty Even Wars in Their Homelands. Now, Immigrant Children Face Ridicule and Exclusion by Many of Their U.S.-born Latino Classmates.” Los Angeles Times. 1995. Web. Tue. 15 Dec. 2015.

“De la Costa, Max.” (2015, November 9) Personal Interview.

I Left My Heart in Syria

I Left My Heart in Syria

by Serena Mokatish, May 2015

The monarchic form of government that Syria uses relies on violence by police and military forces on protesters and innocent civilians to suppress demonstrations. Opposition militias began to from in 2011, and by 2012 the conflict had expanded into a full-fledged Civil War. Today, many Syrians fear being attacked by government forces and are forced to leave their homes. Since Syria is a heavily Islamic populated country, the remaining 8% of Christians in Syria also fear ISIS, which is a terrorist group. Like Steven, an eight-year-old boy who feared possible death in Syria, many other Syrians have escaped the war by migrating to other countries for liberty, life, and prosperity. Throughout the last few years of conflict, Steven and his family moved in and out of Syria multiple times. Steven’s family would stay in Syria when the Civil War conditions were calm, but when the war conditions were critical, his family would temporarily move to Lebanon. Finally, on August 13, 2014, Steven and his family decided to follow in the footsteps of his grandparents and move to the United States to live with them. Steven and his family landed on August 15, 2014, which was Steven’s birthday. During his first week in America, Steven began to feel homesick and felt like his culture was taken away from him. The sudden shift in culture, traumatic experiences, and his experiences as a refugee from the Syrian Civil War have made Steven experience trauma, which has disrupted his adaptation in America because he feels like he does not belong.

Being forced to a new country has been scary for Steven because he has not adapted to the American culture; therefore, Steven has felt isolated, forced, and discouraged, but despite his struggles, he has grown into a strong boy from his experiences. After the Syrian war, Steven and his family moved to America. Immigration was an obstacle that made Steven dislike the United Stated because he lost his friends, his home, and family members due to the Syrian war. Steven was forced to live in America. Steven felt fortunate he had escaped the tragedy of the war, but felt remorseful at the same time, as he states: “I felt really sad for the people in Syria. They killed half of Syria. It is all gone and half of Syria is dead.” The term “they” refers to the Syrian regime. The term “half of Syria” refers to the innocent Syrians that were killed by their own radical people. Steven holds a grudge against the extremists in Syria that killed the innocent half of his country. Steven and his family fled to America for protection and in the process lost their home, as Steven states: “I used to have more friends in Syria, more cousins; my house was bigger; I had two pools, four bathrooms, and two kitchens, and four bedrooms.” Currently, Steven lives in a small apartment and his family is barely making it. Their picture of the American Dream was not what they had hoped. In reality, they have been suffering in a country they did not want to be in and moved regretfully to America because they were trying to protect their lives from the Syrian government.

In addition, the war in Syria affected Steven emotionally because his feelings shift from feeling happy living in his homeland, to feeling threatened living in his homeland, to being scared and forcefully leaving his homeland in order to survive, thus causing confusion for the child. I asked Steven to describe three words on how he felt when he lived in Syria and Steven responded, “Happy, fun, and joy.” Then, I asked him to describe in three words of how he felt during the war and Steven responded, “Scared, sad, and worried.” Next, I asked him how he felt when his parents told him that they were moving to America and he would be living with his grandparents, and Steven replied, “Sad, excited, and scared.” Steven’s eighth birthday was a day he will never forget because it was the day he landed in America, and the moment he landed is when he felt estranged, confused, and shocked. The day before Steven’s eighth birthday, he left his home and traveled halfway across the world to escape from the destruction of the civil war in Syria. Upon his arrival, he met his grandma and grandpa at the airport, as he states: “I did not see them from when I was six. I ran to my grandma and grandpa and hugged them.” Steven was thrilled to reunite with his grandparents again, since he had not seen them in two years. The reunion between Steven’s grandparents and him brought joy and a sense of security because he felt like he had a part of his home back, which was his family. Although Steven was separated and reunited with his family again, the split and reconnection confused him and disrupted his normal childhood, thus causing severe trauma for him because Steven’s emotions changed simultaneously from being happy living in Syria, to feeling threatened living in Syria, to feeling sad after being forced to leave Syria.

Furthermore, as a refugee, even though Steven escaped the dangers of Syria and entered America, which was considered a safe land, instead of feeling a sense of belonging in the American culture, he has felt like a foreigner. After the death of his uncle, which occurred in America, Steven was furthermore traumatized and was confused about which country was a better place to live in. Steven faced Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), as Boris Drožđek, a researcher in psychology, connects: “They originate from the fields of systems theory, migrant mental health, and posttraumatic stress theory” (4). Frequent migration and traumatic experiences during one’s moving process can cause PTSD and effect one’s mental health. PTSD originated from the stress Steven faced in Syria, for he woke up every morning thanking God for being alive because he feared for his life. He developed migration PTSD because he was told that America would protect him and his family’s lives, but when his uncle came to America, he died in a car accident after landing from the airport. Steven felt betrayed by the country he supposedly trusted, thus causing confusing and psychological trauma for him.

Consequently, due to the extreme stress Steven faced in a short amount of time, he continues to remember bad memories, which in addition, makes him lose hope in the land that is supposed to protect the lives of refugees. Steven is facing cultural shock as Irina-Ana Drobot, a psychologist, illustrates: “He projects his fears on the surroundings. The description of nature is subjective, and it is the result of Rochester’s feelings of anxiety and of feeling overwhelmed by the foreign culture he finds himself in” (2). When one enters a country and experiences cultural differences in his/her surroundings, one starts to feel overwhelmed by the foreign culture and has a hard time adapting to his or her new environment, thus causing confusion and stress. This also makes Steven not want to live in America because he was forced to live here and has experienced the death of a family member. He also had a hard time adapting to a different culture because he does not have many family members in America to express his Syrian culture with; therefore, Steven feels restricted to the predominant American culture and does not like it. Family is what makes him feel like he belongs at home and since one family member was removed out of his life for good, he gave up on the hope that America once promised him, which was life over death.

Moreover, Steven faces cultural Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (Cultural PTSD) due to cultural shock, experiencing the death of his uncle in America, and being a refugee, which disrupted his adaptation in America because he was overwhelmed by all traumatic experiences. Although being a refugee secured Steven’s life, it has also made him feel like an outsider and feel homesick, which has furthermore disrupted in his mental health because he went from feeling happy in Syria, to feeling threatened in Syria, to being sad when he forcefully left Syria from the unsafe government. Shifting cultures demandingly made it harder for him to have a sense of belonging and he had a hard time adapting to his new environment as Leah James, a psychologist and researcher in psychological treatments, states: “Children most commonly express frustration and anxiety associated with safety concerns or the whereabouts and well-being of missing family members” (2). When a children leave their home due to safety reasons, most project their fear and anger out onto the new place they are forced to stay in because they feel like they will never like their new home since they are forced to stay in it. Since Steven was forced to leave his home, friends, and family members, he has put all his anger on the country he was forced to stay in, though it has helped secure his life. He is eager to return back to his hometown as Steven shows: “I would ask my mom everyday saying mom when are we going back to Syria? Mom when are we going back to Syria?” He misses his old environment because that is where he belonged. Steven’s identity stayed back in Syria and since he was forced to escape to America, he left his old identity behind and struggls to find his new one because he is facing culture shock. Steven’s psychological trauma derives from being a refugee, experiencing the death of a loved one, and having a hard time adapting to the new American culture because he valued his Syrian culture excessively, and that was taken away from him.

In addition, Steven’s traumatic experiences of losing his loved ones, being a war refugee, and having a hard time adapting to the American culture dampened his hope for fitting into the American culture. Since Steven lost the majority of his family and friends, he relied on God as the last resort for comfort because he knows God will never leave him throughout his struggles. What kept Steven from missing his uncle, family, friends, and home in Syria was his faith, as Steven claims: “I thank God every day that I did not die in Syria and I ask God to help me make new friends and family so I can be happy again.” Steven’s faith helps him get through the tragic experiences of losing his family, friends, and home in Syria. He had to accept the fact that God had a different plan for him and it was by fate and for safety reasons that he had to move to America and leave his old life in Syria behind.  Though he accepts everything as fate, he never forgot about his cultural values. He learned to embrace his Syrian culture and only grasp on to the positive culture values from America. Steven’s family is very involved in church because they want Steven to be raised well and not pick up bad habits from the American culture, which also disrupts his adaptation in the American culture because he is forced to follow certain rules. His parents shelter him and protect him with the help of his new spiritual family. His spiritual family constantly lifts him up, welcomes him, and helps him get through his traumatic experiences because it severely affected his emotional health.

Similarly, while Steven is suffering from traumatic experiences and is having a hard time adapting to the American culture because his emotions are fluctuating between being happy, sad, and frustrated all at once, he is currently recovering with the help of loved ones. In order for Steven to adapt living in America and heal from the mental scarring he faced, he needs the support of friends and family. He finds comfort by trusting the people he loves the most and since he is only eight years old, he needs nurturing love in order to move on in life. For Steven to feel safe and secure, he needs the emotional support from his immediate family and his spiritual family. I asked Steven if he would miss the members of his church if he left back to Syria. He replied, “Yes, of course!” According to his response, if he left to return to Syria, he would be even more traumatized because he would be leaving more of his loved ones in America and gaining back the family members he lost in the past in Syria, which would cause more confusion for the child. Then, I asked Steven if he would dislike America even more if he did not have his grandma and grandpa with him and he replied, “Yeah.” Conferring to Steven’s response, family is what has helped him adjust to life in America after having his adaptation disrupted due to living among his family members in Syria, to forcefully leaving his family members in Syria, to meeting new friends in America and ending up loving his new spiritual family members in America.

Steven will most likely will never be able to adapt fully to America because he will always treasure the land that was forcefully taken away from him. He is not the type of boy that hides his identity; instead, he embraces and claims his identity as Syrian. Although his life was threatened in Syria, he still holds on to his Syrian identity. When Steven entered America, where his life is not threatened, again, he still holds on to his Syrian identity. He is very proud of his culture, but has a hard time embracing it in the United States because he does not have most of his family members to share it with. Steven cannot integrate his culture well with the American culture because there are too many differences. Steven also does not want to be so-called “Americanized” because he feels that some aspects of the American culture tend to be disrespectful, since respect is an important factor of the Syrian culture. I asked Steven, “What do you not like about the American culture?” Steven immediately replied, “I don’t like how the teenagers grow up to be. They think they can do whatever they want and then they get in so much trouble with their parents. If they do that they don’t respect their parents.” Steven bases his cultural value on the idea of respecting his parents. Syrian children honor their parents and grandparents so much that they would risk their own lives just to save them. Steven expresses his culture by showing respect to his parents. He wants to hold on to his Syrian culture because he does not want to grow up to be a typical American teenager and disrespect his parents, which is equivalent to disrespecting his culture.

Steven’s mental health transformed negatively and his adaptation was disturbed because his feelings have shifted from being happy living in his homeland, to feeling threatened living in his homeland, to being scared and forced leaving his homeland in order to survive, thus causing confusion for the child. Although being a war refugee saved his life, it also made him feel like he was forced to stay in a country where he felt like he did not belong due to cultural differences and to not having his cousins around him. Dangerous war conditions often force people to leave their homes for safety; when they escape for safety reasons, they often face cultural shock because they entered a country that they were forced to remain in. He had his culture taken away from him and has been forced to integrate it with a completely different culture, which also causes more bewilderment for him. Today, thousands of Syrian refugees are fleeing from Syria to other countries to protect their lives. When refugee children like Steven are forced to leave their home, it disrupts their normal healthy childhood because they are confused from the sudden change of their environment.

Works Cited

Drožđek, Boris. “Challenges in Treatment of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder in Refugees: Towards Integration of Evidence-based Treatments with Contextual and Culture-sensitive Perspectives.” European Journal of Psychotraumatology 6 (n.d.): 1-8. ESCOB. Web. 5May 2015.

Drobot, Irina-Ana. “Relationships and Culture Shock in Wide Sargasso Sea by Jean Rhys.” Scientific Journal of Humanistic Studies 6 (n.d.): 1-3.ESCOB. Web. 5 May 2015.

James, Leah. “The Mental Health of Syrian Refugee Children and Adolescents.” Forced Migration Review 47 (n.d.): 42-44. ESCOB.

Transcripts

First Meeting:

Serena: “How do you like living in the United states?”

Steven: “Not that much.”

Serena: “Why?”

Steven: “Because I used to have more friends in Syria, more cousins, and a bunch of other stuff. My house was bigger, I had two pools, four bathrooms, two kitchens, and four bedrooms.”

Serena: “How did you feel about the war?”

Steven: “Really sad.”

Serena: “Why did you feel sad?”

Steven: “Half of Syria is gone. They killed it! So now there is half of Syria and half of the other Syria is dead. That is why I am sad.”

Serena: “But none of your family died?”

Steven: “None.”

Serena: “Okay, that is good. Why did you come to the United States?”

Steven: “From the war.”

Serena: “So you do not have to be in the war?”

Steven: “Yeah.”

Serena: “How do you feel about moving to the United States?”

Steven: “Sad.”

Serena: “Did you want to move to the United States?”

Steven: “Not that much.”

Serena: “So you were really sad when you left?”

Steven: “Yeah, until my mom told me that my grandma and grandpa were here. I became a bit happier.”

Serena: “So you see your grandpa and grandma a lot huh?”

Steven: “Yeah, I did not see them from when I was six. All the way to seven and when I had my eighth birthday year. On my eighth birthday year that’s when I came. For my birthday. And two weeks, so it was…Wait no, for two days…August 15th, that is when I came.”

Serena: “Mhm.”

Steven: “Do you have any more questions?”

Serena: “Where do you like going to school more, here or Syria?”

Steven: “Syria.”

Serena: “Why?”

Steven: “I have more friends, I have two cousins….”

Serena: “And you learned more?”

Steven: “Yeah, I learned five languages.”

Serena: “Wow!”

Steven: “I know that is a lot.”

Serena: “And you have more friends there?”

Steven: “Yeah.”

Serena: “Wait, so you speak all those languages fluently?”

Steven: “Like, two of them I do not know a lot, but three of them…”

Serena: “Fluent.”

Steven: “Yeah.”

Serena: “Describe what you did in Syria with family.”

Steven: “We would have family dinners, go to the mall, walk around, and go visit my cousins. I would go swimming. I would play with my cousins.”

Serena: “What games did you play?

Steven: “We played tag, hide and seek, soccer, we swam in the pool. A lot of stuff.”

Serena: “Did you have a lot of friends at school?”

Steven: “Yeah I had so many friends.”

Serena: “Do your friends speak Arabic and English or just Arabic?”

Steven: “Some do, some don’t. But most of them speak both English and Arabic because that is what they teach us in school.”

Serena: “Oh, that’s good.”

Steven: “Yeah.”

Serena: “Would you go back to Syria?”

Steven: “When the war stops, yes.”

Serena: “Do you want to go back to Syria, after the war?”

Steven: “Yes, every day I beg my mom. I tell her “When is the war going to stop? I want to go to Syria. When is the war going to stop? I want to go to Syria!””

Serena: “Aw!”

Steven: “Every single day, every single second.”

Serena: “Wow. Where do you consider home, here or Syria?”

Steven: “Syria.”

Serena: “Obviously, yeah. Describe the moving process, like describe how you moved from Syria to here.”

Steven: “Okay, so before the war in two days we were in Lebanon. We stayed there for a year and went we went back for two weeks and went back to Lebanon and stayed there. We got our stuff and went to the airplane. Two days from the airplane we went all the way to America. From Lebanon to America when you go it is two days.”

Serena: “Mhm.”

Steven: “I watched some movies on the airplane. I got ice cream.”

Serena: I know I got ice cream too when I traveled.”

Steven: “Let’s see, I met two of my friends.”

Serena: “On the plane?”

Steven: “Yeah. One was Kieran and one was Zach.”

Serena: “How did you feel when you first stepped in America? Your first step like when you came to the airport in America.”

Steven: “I was like, I got a bit scared, was a bit weird, out of place, and saw with my grandpa and grandma and friends. First, I ran to my grandma and grandpa. I hugged them. Then, I went to Kieran and Zach. We said hi, we shake hands, we hugged each other, we had lots of fun. That day we had a sleepover. They went to my house, or should I say my grandma’s house.”

Serena: “Oh wow! Do you love your grandma and grandpa a lot?”

Steven: “Yeah I love them a lot!”

Serena: “Aw!”

Steven: “Yeah, we had lots of fun! And we had a big feast.”

Serena: That’s good, that’s good!”

Steven: “Yeah.”

Serena: “So, if you went back to Syria, would you miss America?”

Steven: “Not that much.”

Serena: (laughs) “Okay.”

Steven: “But I would miss my friends and the people that I know.”

Serena: Church?

Steven: “Church!”

Serena: “Would you miss me?”

Steven: “Yeah.”

Serena: “Describe the last moment you had with your friend.”

Steven: “Okay. I told my friend not to eat chicken nuggets.”

Serena: “Why?”

Steven: “Because they are bad for you. My mom said so.”

Serena: “Yes, you are correct. They are bad for you. They crush baby chicks with the bones and guts inside and make chicken nuggets.”

Steven: “Yeah all the bones are in there. That is why I do not eat chicken nuggets. My friend did not believe me and thought I was crazy and weird.”

Serena: “Well, don’t worry, when he grows up and learns about it, he will remember you. You know my sister, Mira, loves chicken nuggets?”

Steven: Really?”

Serena: “Yeah. I hope she stops eating it.”

Steven: “Yeah they are bad for you. I will never eat them”

Serena: “Wait so is English your first or second language?”

Steven: “Second.”

Serena: “So you know how to read and write and speak Arabic?”

Steven: “Yeah.”

Serena: “Kol ishi (Means everything in Arabic)?”

Steven: “Kolshi (Means everything in Arabic).”

Serena: “You are so cute! I wish I get to have a son that turns out just like you.”

Steven: (Laughs).

Serena: “Oh by the way, I heard about you mom’s brother. I am so sorry for your loss. But he should be happy he is in heaven living with God now.”

Steven: “Thanks, I hope so too. I really miss my uncle. I thank God every day that I did not die in Syria and I ask God to help me make new friends and family so I can be happy again.”

Serena: “How old was he when he died?”

Steven “Twenty-four.”

Serena: “Wow, so young! How did it happen?”

Steven: “My Grandpa told him to escape from the war and to move. So when he did and got out of the airplane and went into car, he got into a car accident and died.”

Serena: “Oh, my gosh, that is so sad!”

Steven: “Yeah. He came to escape the war because he did not want to fight in it.”

Serena: “So he was a part of the Army?”

Steven: “Yeah. He left because he did not want to fight but when he came here he died anyways.”

Serena: “That means God wanted his child early. You will see your uncle again someday, don’t worry.”

Steven: “Yeah I know.” (Looking all sad).

Serena: “Give me a hug.”

(Serena and Steven hug)

Second Meeting:

Serena: “Do you have a lot of friends in your new school here?”

Steven: “Not as much as in Syria, but I’m starting to make new friends here.”

Serena: “How do you like living here so far?”

Steven: “I don’t like it that much. I miss my friends in Syria.”

Serena: “Would you hate America even more if you did not have your grandma and grandpa with you?”

Steven: “Yeah.”

Serena: “Do you like the kids in the church?”

Steven: “Yeah I like playing with them. Your little sister is so nice.”

Serena: “Yeah she is, but you should see her when she gets home. She acts crazy.”

Steven: “Really?”

Serena: “Yeah, and your little sister is so cute!”

Steven: “Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Everyone says oh your sister is so cute.”

Serena: “If you were president of Syria, how would you fix the war?”

Steven: “Murder is bad. I would tell people that God said no to kill anyone and that we should all love each other.”

Serena: “I would do the same thing. If there was such thing as a time machine, would you go back in time to experience living in Syria?”

Steven: “Yeah I wish I could go back.”

Serena: “Do you know what the Syrian War is about?”

Steven: “Yeah. The Syrian War is both sides fighting each other.”

Serena: “Were you living on the good side of Syria or the bad side of Syria?”

Steven: “The good side, but some people around us were bad.”

Serena: “So your family moved to America just in case the bad people come to the good side where you lived?”

Steven: “Yeah. My mom wanted us to be safe.”

Serena: “Do you feel forced that you left your home.”

Steven: “Yeah I had no choice. Syria is dangerous now.”

Serena: “What kind of house do you have now?”

Steven: “It’s not that big. I miss my old house, but I live with my grandma and grandpa. We don’t have our own house.”

Serena: “Do you like living with your grandma and grandpa?”

Steven: “Yeah, but i wish we all lived together in Syria.”

Serena: “Do you find it hard to fit in?”

Steven: “Not really.”

Serena: If someone were to ask you which are you more, Syrian or American, what would you say?”

Steven: “Syrian.”

Serena: “Are you proud to be Syrian?”

Steven: “Yeah.”

Serena: “What you like the most about Syria.”

Steven: “My friends and family.”

Serena: “What school do you like better, the one here or in Syria?”

Steven: “Syria.”

Serena: “Do you feel like your heart will always belong in Syria more?”

Steven: “Yeah.”

Serena: “Describe three words of how you felt when you lived in Syria before the war.”

Steven: “Happy, fun, good.”

Serena: “Now describe in three words how you felt during the war in Syria.”

Steven: “Sad, scared, and worried.”

Serena: “Now describe in three words how you felt when your parents told you that you were moving to America with your grandpa and grandma.”

Steven: “Sad, excited, and scared.”

Serena: “Since you have been in America for a while, in three words how would you describe your feelings now?”

Steven: “Better, miss my home and friends, and still sad.”

Serena: “How would you feel if you went back tomorrow to Syria and the war was magically over. Describe it in three words again.”

Steven: “Really happy, excited, joy.”

Serena: “Aw. Who do you miss more, your family or your friends.”

Steven: “My family. Especially my cousins because I love to play with them.”

Serena: “Of course. Nothing beats family.”

Steven: “Yeah.”

Serena: “What makes you feel at home when you are in a different place?”

Steven: “When you have a lot of friends and family.”

Serena: “Describe how you feel when you leave your friends.”

Steven: “When I leave my friends I get sad a little bit, but then I get over it.”

Serena: “Describe how you feel when your parents leave the house.”

Steven: “When my mom leaves the house I get mad.”

Serena: “Why do you get mad?”

Steven: “Because I want my mom.”

Serena: “You’re a mommy’s boy.”

Steven: “Yeah.”

Serena: “Describe a normal day with you and your family.”

Steven: “First, I get up in the morning and go to school, then I come home and do homework, eat dinner with my family, then play with my sister, and then I take a shower and go to sleep.”

Serena: “Do you spend more time with your mom or your grandparents.”

Steven: “Both because we all live together.”

Serena: “Do you consider yourself Syrian or American?”

Steven: “Syrian.”

Serena: “What makes you Syrian?”

Steven: “I grew up in Syria, my family is from Syria, I speak Arabic, and yeah.”

Serena: “Does your mom work?”

Steven: “No.”

Serena: “How about your dad?”

Steven: “Yeah my dad is a taxi driver.”

Serena: “Are you closer to your mom more than your dad?”

Steven: “Yeah, I think so.”

Serena: “Do you have dreams of the memories you had in Syria or dreams of you in America when you sleep?”

Steven: “I have dreams of me in Syria playing with my friends and family. With my friends I play with them at school and with family I play with them at home.”

Serena: “Describe the last dream you had when you were in Syria.”

Steven: “I dreamt that I was in Syria playing soccer with five of my friends. Then my mom called us into the house to have dinner, but we did not want to go into the house because we were having so much fun playing. Then my mom got mad we went back inside. We tried sneaking back out to play but all the doors were locked and we did not have the keys. Then I woke up.”

Serena: “Funny dream. Do you miss your school or friends in school more in Syria?”

Steven: “I miss my friends more.”

Serena: “What did you hear about America before you came here?”

Steven: “That America was the best country in the world and that it is pretty and nice and there is a lot of rich people.”

Serena: “After coming to the United States, do you think what you said was true?”

Steven: “It looks nice but it is boring.”

Serena: “What makes it boring?”

Steven: “There is no one in the streets, I don’t have a lot of family and friends here. I have a smaller house. My parents used to have more money and I bought more things in Syria.”

Serena: “Are there a lot of people in the streets in Syria.”

Steven: “Yeah there’s lots of people everywhere. It is like a shopping mall but everyone is outside. Everyone talks to each other in the streets. In America all you see outside are cars. It is like a dessert.”

Serena: “Do you think in Syria people talk more and are friendlier?”

Steven: “Yeah we all help each other.”

Serena: “Do you think the people in Syria are one big family?”

Steven: “Yeah they are all nice.”

Serena: “What don’t you like about the American culture?”

Steven: “I don’t like how the teenagers grow up to be. They think they can do whatever they want and then they get in so much trouble with their parents. If they do that they don’t respect their parents.”

Roles, from Generation to Generation to Generation

Roles, from Generation to Generation to Generation
by Sean Lerche, December 2014

My name is Sean Lerche. I am a second generation immigrant, son of Victoria Xin, grandson of Heng Xin. I am the result of the teachings given to my grandfather being passed down to my mother and then to me. My life is destined to always be influenced by the beliefs and actions of my predecessors, by my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents, and that influence by the past is no different for my predecessors. I was taught by my mother, my mother was taught by my grandfather, and my grandfather was influenced by his past. For my grandfather, Heng, speaking of his past meant speaking of being brought up in a poor family, of working to gain an education, and of establishing a family of his own, all the while trying to escape poverty through schooling; for my mother, Victoria, speaking of her past meant working to fulfill her parents’ wish for her to gain an education and establish a stable life of her own in the United States. Just as my grandfather would shape his values and views on life around his upbringing in a poor family and working to escape it, my mother would shape her beliefs around her father’s teachings, and she would influence how I would come to see the world.

Victoria Xin is a first generation immigrant from Hong Kong, having immigrated to San Francisco at the age of two years, and she views the United States as her home, for it is where her family is. To her, China is not where she belongs, hardly where she wishes to be, for her origin is not what determines home to her. Instead of stories of China, she would tell me stories of her youth, particularly how she interacted with her family and how she acted in school. My mother told me that, after school ended, her father would walk with her home. And along the way, they would stop at a few stores. They would buy candy and sometimes a comic book or two. They would return home to my grandmother and my mother’s four siblings. My mother told me that my grandmother would take care of every household chore: cooking meals, cleaning the house, taking care of the children; she would be strict with her children when they did wrong, to the point where she was practically feared. Victoria described, “Mm. Well, Gong-Gong worked as an accountant, and Pa-Pa stayed home to take care of me and your uncles and aunt. She did the cooking and the cleaning around the house. Umm . . . well, she was very strict.” Besides Victoria, who was the youngest, my grandparents had four other children, three sons and another daughter. The sons would fight constantly, as siblings do, and were known to go after one another. The first daughter, Victoria’s older sister, actually had moved out rather quickly, marrying in her late adolescence. While still an immigrant from Hong Kong, Victoria’s life revolved around her family in the United States, not around where she once lived.

For my grandfather, Heng Xin, a traditional familial structure seemed best, one in which the father works, the mother remains at home, and the children focus on attending school and getting good grades; having seen how his father could not care for his entire family, Heng came to see his parents’ family as being unstable and wished never to return to that, eventually pushing his daughter Victoria to seek to establish a stable, traditional family. His father was a polygamist and had multiple wives. As a result, Heng had many half-siblings, a few which he did grow close to. His father however did not make much money, and the family often had to eat what they could. His mother would fight with the other mothers in an effort to get food for her own child, but she rarely spent time with Heng because of it. To Heng, this familial structure, in which the father works to care for multiple wives and many children, may have appeared as faulty. His father could not provide much of a life for his children, and Heng likely saw this as a failure on his part. To avoid ever being in such a situation once more, a family with only two parents and kids, in which both parents had certain roles to play in the structure, had stability. In regards to Victoria, the expectation was to find stability in her own life, to first gain an education and a good job, then to start a family. Victoria noted, “I didn’t move out until I was, mm, 27, I think. It was easier to afford college living with Gong-Gong and Pa-Pa (Cantonese for one’s grandparents on one’s mother’s side; Gong-Gong for one’s grandfather, and Pa-Pa for one’s grandmother). They never really minded, as long as I was in school.” For me, though, my mother actually works. My grandfather, however, never minded. He did still expect me to work to attain a stable job; he did hope that I would be secure in my future and thought that it would provide me with happiness, as it had for him. In an effort to find stability in his life that was absent from his childhood, Heng came to believe that he must push his descendants to seek stability as well, both in the workplace and in one’s family; while Victoria did establish a family, she chose to have her own career instead of being the caretaker at home.
Without the guidance of his parents, being that they were normally too preoccupied as to pay heed to him, Heng learned to act on his own, working to succeed in school so as to escape poverty. In order to attend school, he would ride his bike for miles. When he became tired, he would go so far as to hang onto the back of a bus while it moved down the busy streets of Hong Kong. For him, he came to view school as being an important part of his life, seeing it as the pathway to a new life far from his poor origins. It is completely possible that Heng even felt pressure in his schooling to succeed as well. Writer Lau Sing notes, “Chinese students regarded interest and effort as being a more important factor for success in work than American students did. They also saw having personal assets such as good luck, wealth, and intelligence as being more important,” after reviewing over what students in both Hong Kong and the U.S. view as being the purpose of schooling. Heng very well may have feared that there was no other path than schooling, even if it was at the expense of classmates. Without his parents, Heng learned to act in school independently, finding his own drive to succeed.

Seeking stability in his life apart from the poverty he experienced in his youth, Heng focused on finding stable work and establishing a family, even as World War II and the civil war in China threw his life in disarray. As the years passed for Heng, he went on to study to become a marine customs officer. He actually worked from a fourth-level officer to a first-level officer. He claimed he wished he could have remained an officer. When Japan invaded China during World War II, he cleverly avoided being drafted into the Chinese army by remaining a customs officer, but even he had to escape northward across China to avoid the invading Japanese army. To his luck though, Heng met his wife along his escape. He vied to her parents for marriage and won them over. They would eventually have five kids in total. The war had its losses though. Heng would later find out his sister had been a casualty. He didn’t really voice how close he was to her, and he didn’t show any signs through facial expression. Even after World War II, there was an ongoing civil war between the capitalists in power, led by Chiang Kai-shek, and the communist party, led by Mao Zedong. When the communists won, they spread their government control all the way to southern China. Heng was told he had to give up half of his belongings. He found this to his disliking, for he’d long worked for what he owned. He and his family left for Hong Kong across the bridge connecting mainland China to the island, which he said was rarely guarded well. The schools in Hong Kong were incredibly competitive though, and his children were having difficulty. So he left Hong Kong soon after for the United States. I asked him about his political thoughts on the civil war, about whether he agreed with capitalism or communism. As was uniquely my grandfather, he answered with a big smile that it didn’t matter to him. The communists took his stuff, and he didn’t like that. All that mattered was creating a stable life for himself and his family; affiliation to any political side or even China meant little in comparison.

Already having grown used to thinking and acting independently in his childhood due to the inability to depend upon his parents, Heng would come to see that he could not so easily trust either his nation or the rest of the world, having experienced both World War II and the communist revolution, and that his loyalty lies solely with his family. In the midst of fighting between the Chinese army and the Japanese army and between the GMD and the CCP, Heng could not feel any allegiance to the Chinese army or either the capitalists or the communists. No side guaranteed his safety or even the safety of his family, for which he sought stability for. In World War II, his sister died. In the communist revolution, he had to flee with his family to Hong Kong. No side worked to aide him; he could only trust his own thoughts and actions. To Heng, the only ones he could trust were his family, and that was where his loyalty would come to lie; my grandfather would come to instill the same sort of loyalty in me. Growing up, my grandfather came to be aware of my efforts to remain strong for my family, not by asking but by observing the same behavior in me he had displayed. I would not show distress to my family, and he was able to see me acting as such, for he had done so for his own family. Victoria says of her father, “I don’t think I ever saw him cry. He was always smiling.” Working to become the pillar for my family, he would come to be a pillar for me. Having thought and acted independently, unable to see how he could have trusted others to aide him, my grandfather would come to believe that, as the pillar of his family, he could not show his distress; having done so himself, he would be able to see how I acted to do so for my own family and act to be a pillar for me. Having come to believe that he must act to protect his family due to two wars that threatened his family’s and his own safety, his independent thinking and dedication to his family would be what would eventually allow me to relate to him, as we both had worked to protect our families.
Heng would come to pressure his own daughter to seek higher education, and his daughter would come to pressure her son to seek higher education. To him, the education she gained would have been a result of his pushing, and that education would have guaranteed her future, even if it meant she would resent him for it. At the same time though, this very pressure he placed on her would eventually become my own burden. My mother would come to place this very same pressure to succeed upon me. As much as she wished she had not experienced it herself, she would come to expect me to succeed as well. She would come to always remind me of how smart I am, of how, if I made more of an effort, I could succeed. She would come to act as her father had, as his past had pushed my grandfather to pressure himself. For me personally, though, I can’t help but wonder how important an education really is. I understand that an education would guarantee my future, that it would mean my safety in an economy with an expanding financial gap between the rich and the poor. “At the same time, technology is making education a significant barrier between the rich and poor in America. If you have a college degree in the US, the unemployment rate is 4%. If you don’t, the unemployment rate is near 20%,” as Eric Jackson stated while observing the reasons for the shrinking middle class in the U.S. I do question, though, whether that diploma will be for me or my mother, whether it will mean my happiness, or whether it will solidify my mother’s success in raising me. In asking that, I must also question how my grandfather felt as well, as to what his push to pressure my mother to gain an education was for as well. It is his action in pressuring my mother to seek higher education that would eventually cause her to believe that she must pressure me to seek higher education, even as I try to find my own drive in doing so.

Having been raised in a poor family, in which his father was a polygamist and could not provide his family with more money on his menial pay and neither of his parents had the time to pay heed to him, Heng came to believe that he had to act independently, seeking an education so as to find stability in life; when he established a family of his own, Heng instilled the values he learned and placed high expectations on his children, believing that such actions would eventually provide them with the happiness that he found. Heng’s upbringing taught him his views on life and himself, and his past would come to influence his children and even his children’s children, for his teachings would become the foundation for how his children would raise their children. Having sought an education and succeeded, Heng would pressure his children to seek educations, and they would do the same to their own children. The past that had caused Heng to seek an education and search for stability in life would come to eventually affect how his children, including Victoria, would be raised and how they would raise their own children; his past would affect not only him but also the next generation and the generation after that. Even so, while my grandfather believed in thinking and acting independently, I grew to be independent entirely of my own volition, without having been pressured by him to do so; I had chosen to act independently so as to better serve my family, just as he did, and knowing that we had both done so allowed for us to grow close through that similarity. My mother was also able to form a life independently, apart from her father’s influences; while her father believed in a traditional family structure, in which the wife is to fulfill the role of caretaker for the house, Victoria started a career as a lawyer, though her father never really objected to her seeking a career. While my grandfather does still influences both my mother’s and my views on life, both my mother and I are still able to think and act independently of his teachings; however, my grandfather will always be the teacher of my mother and me, teaching us his values and views on life, just as his past had taught him. So it is for all people; their pasts influence the way they view life, and they will go on to teach their children their values, eventually influencing the next generation and maybe even the next one through their children.

Works Cited

Sing, Lau, et al. “Chinese and American Adolescents’ Perceptions of the Purposes of
Education and Beliefs about the World of Work.” Social Behavior & Personality: An
International Journal 28.1 (2000): 73. Academic Search Premier. Web. 16 May 2014.

Jackson, Eric. “Why the Middle Class Matters in both the US and China.” Forbes.com
(2011): 21. Business Source Premier. Web. 16 May 2014.

Georgian-American or American-Georgian

Georgian-American or American-Georgian

by Michael Figlock, August 2014

I met with Levan at the Japantown Mall due to its close proximity to where he works as a bartender. He told me that afternoon that he was short on sleep, having just worked after playing an extended, cut-throat game of Poker with his friends the night before. The two of us met such that I could write a paper for my English 1A class, a class that he had taken previously. Something that resonated with him from the class was an essay in which Andrew Lam, a Vietnamese-American writer, said he was old enough to still remember his country and still young enough to still adapt to this one. Levan described this condition as being one that applied to him and his relationship with Georgia, the country from which he emigrated. Levan’s description of his country of origin was a complex one, fitting for a country that has been in the hotbed of Eastern European political affairs for the last three decades. Levan described his time in Georgia as being largely positive, despite genocide occurring “three blocks away from [his] house” while he was there. Russian tanks came through Georgia and literally drove over protesters. Levan said that he considers himself “Georgian-American or American-Georgian.” He considers Georgia to be his home, though since living in the United States, this has changed. Now, Levan’s sense of home has come to include both Georgia and the United States.

Levan is 28 years old and is working hard to improve his livelihood as a member of both countries. While speaking to him I got the impression that, throughout the rest of his life, he will continue to travel between both Georgia and the United States.  He is working on getting his certification to become a paramedic so that he can do good works in both countries. He is currently certified as an EMT, a steppingstone to becoming a paramedic. As a paramedic, he wishes to retrofit vans into ambulances such that Georgia can have a modern ambulance system. According to my impression of him, he is someone who very much believes in pulling himself up by his own bootstraps.  He has already bought cars in America at auctions to send back to Georgia. He is “taking all of the classes, as much as [he] can,” in order to go to SF State, where he hopes to study history and perhaps get involved with the Red Cross. As he already knows “four or five languages,” he thinks that this kind of move with his life is very possible. Levan says that languages come pretty easily to him and that, as a result, he enjoys learning them. Even though he doesn’t speak Spanish or German particularly fluently—he speaks English, Russian, and Georgian fluently—he thinks he could pick them up pretty quickly if he were to spend some time in a country that speaks them.

The sense of community is what Levan misses most from Georgia. He says that it is a very “community-based country,” and that what he feels he has lost the most since leaving is “the sense of family.” His times there were peaceful “from ’91 to 1999.” In Georgia, one stays with the same classmates all the way through school, with teachers coming to the classroom rather than the other way around. As a result, your classmates become very close to you, some of them becoming like brothers, and another, even, possibly, becoming a wife. Much of his life there was devoted to soccer and friends. Some of the times that Levan reflected on the most fondly were when he was living with his grandparents, away from his home city. There, his brother’s friends showed him around and, because of the fact that his grandfather was a famous Georgian boxer from many years ago, many older people wanted to show Levan around as well. Yet the reasons for Levan’s time spent with his grandparents were not happy. Someone in Levan’s close family needed serious medical attention as his father’s car had been sabotaged and exploded.

When Levan was living in Georgia, he witnessed an armed conflict there. Georgia has always been “in-between struggles, even since the Ottoman Empire.” Early in Georgia’s history, the area was a battleground for wars between Islam and Christianity, the two factions warring over where Georgia would fall in this conflict concerning eternal damnation. More recently, Russia has been the aggressor in the struggles that Georgia has been a part of. Levan’s opinion of Russia is that the country is a “bully” and he “can’t stand bullies.” There was genocide during the years that Levan was there; which happened in 1991, when Levan was about five years old. Some of his family’s relatives came into his house with AKs and stuff to help him flee from the capital city. Levan was pretty casual when discussing the genocide and he didn’t spend much time talking about it. Now that he’s older and has a greater awareness of the world, he says that his understanding of what happened back there has grown. He wishes that, when he was in Georgia, he had taken more time to learn about the country’s complex past. I wondered if that was what compelled him to look into studying history at SF State, but I didn’t ask.

When first making the United States his home, Levan’s biggest struggle was the linguistic barriers associated with the cultural transition. His brother got a job at Charles Schwab in America after coming here with political immunity due to the war in Georgia. It was Levan’s opinion of his brother that he’s doing “very well” for himself. Levan came here after his brother and went straight to high school in San Francisco. Some of the other struggles he faced have included the “depression and the sadness that [he] miss[ed] people, nostalgic feeling of being around home.” What got him kicked out of high school briefly was a fight over a mistranslation. Levan, when he was in Georgia, had a certain amount of education in English. According to him, not everyone “jokes, for example, the same type of jokes.” I think that this statement highlights that there are many cultural nuances that are present in communication, particularly with respect to joking. The mistranslation that Levan was involved in, though casually dropped frequently between Americans, was one that he thought was insulting his mother in some pretty drastic ways.

Something that stuck out to me in Levan describing his former self prior to coming to America as being a bit more consumed by “ego-type of ways.” The impression I got was that he was also doing a certain amount of fighting in Georgia as well. Levan said that something that has been a struggle in his life for some time now has been not feeling as though he was older than or even superior to his peers.  Since coming to America, he was exposed to people from places that he “wouldn’t even think about—from Philippines to China to Arabian countries

to–of course Russian people.” Because there are so many Russian people living in the Richmond, the district where Levan originally moved in San Francisco, he fit in decently well because Russian is one of the five languages that he speaks. His perspective became one that takes humanity in general into account rather than one just focused primarily on Gerogia. He used to think that “being a Georgian was the best thing,” but after his time in America, he contrasted his previous viewpoint with saying that “it doesn’t matter where you’re from.”  He now describes himself as “out forward, outgoing, and [he] won’t do anything to piss people off.” He said that he notices at jobs at whatnot that people recognize him as someone who is easy to deal with.

Something that particularly indicates in my mind the bicultural nature of Levan’s post-American-living identity is his desire to eventually raise children as both Georgian and American. His goals are to “raise a family here, just to take them there, let them grow as my children, as understanding both.” This is one way in which Levan would seem to cement his identity as both a Georgian and American. Levan believes that what makes America so great of a country is its capacity to integrate the ideals of people from many different countries. It is my opinion that Levan has internalized this perspective into himself in that he views himself as being greater for integrating the ideals of people from many different countries. His brother’s wife is Brazilian and he joked with her about Brazil’s recent trouncing in the World Cup.

Now that Levan has expanded the scope of his previous perspective of the world, it is impossible for him to go back to viewing the world in the way he once did.  In his own words, he said something to the effect of “he kinda’ cannot go back to his natural habitat,” meaning that his worldview with respect to his home and how he sees the world has been forever expanded.  Levan’s mother tried to come to America but was less pleased with her transition between the two countries.  She made the trip when she was much older than how old Levan was when he made the trip.  It was Levan’s opinion that it must be harder for someone to come to America, or leave their country at all for that matter, when so much of their life has been established in another country.  Recently, when Levan left San Francisco for “somewhere, even [his] country—[he] went there a few times—[he] miss[es] it here so much, [he] can’t even explain.  [He] went to the East coast for two weeks [and he] couldn’t wait to get back.”  His opinions of living in Gerogia now is that living only there would leave him feeling “cornered,” with the only good news he hears from people living there being that they had a kid.  Practically everything else that he hears coming from the country is that someone has died or some other negative news.  I think that Levan would feel tied down of that’s what he was doing right now. Politically, he is not fond of the way in which Georgia has sacked its powerful leader for being too despotic.  Though a particular powerful politician there was able to arrest numerous politicians, he became criticized for gaining too much power.  Now, it is his opinion, that the country is governed by politicians who are far too young and inexperienced (Levan).

Edward Said in his essay, “Reflections on exile” paints the departure of one home country as nearly almost always a contributor to great sadness in the life of the exile. Where there are people who are exulted as having experienced great, humanistic, transnational experiences on account of immigration, there are always far more people who have been dislocated on account of conflict whose story of immigration is very sad. Levan’s story of immigration is hard to categorize as either fully working toward a positive end in his life or something that was conflict-induced, his story, I think, exemplifying Edward Said’s description of immigration stories. Levan’s brother, a decently large player in Levan’s immigrant experience, at least, came to America on account of political asylum he received due to a conflict. Levan’s life however, much to the merit of his resolution, seems to be very much moving in the direction that he’d like it to, that being toward his role as a medical professional. Simply, Levan’s life is comprised of both growing experiences that recognize a broader understanding of the human character as well as experiences that were put into motion on account of conflict.          Edward Said also would seem to make the claim that existing between nationalities is necessarily a painful experience. Levan, who sees himself as Georgian-American yet is not completeky satisfied with everything that is Georgian or everything that is American, is perhaps better off not being restricted to having a single nationality. This way, he can assimilate the best parts of what he can derive from both countries–say, the family-sense of Georgia and the life opportunities of America–and make a wholly new identity for himself, outside of any one nationality. This way, he can pursue the American medical field while also being a contributor to the communities that brought him up in Georgia (Said). In “Happiness and ‘economic migration’: A comparison of Eastern European migrants and stayers,” David Bertram shows that, at least in the case of Eastern European emigrants moving into various Western European countries, the happiness level of immigrants varies from country to country. This peer-reviewed research would support the idea that Edward Said’s classification of emigrants into two categories of those who are pleased with the humanistic experience of their immigration and those who are displeased with it on account of having to do so due to conflict is too simplistic. The reality of the situation is that the experiences of immigrants leaving eastern Europe may contain too many specificities and unique qualities for general assertions to be about all of them (Bartram).          Whereas some may say that an immigrant’s story must be either entirely devoted to humanistic transnationalism or the product of conflict’s strife, I think that Levan’s story has shown otherwise. Now, Levan’s sense of home has come to include both Georgia and the United States. His goals in life of working to become a paramedic in order to establish a modern ambulance system in Georgia and his goals of raising his future children in both countries will further establish him as being a member of both countries. The specificities of Levan’s story of moving from Georgia to America further establish the diverse nature of what it means to be an immigrant.

Transcribed Interview

Voice 003: 00:20 — 00:35: 15 sec

L: I’m taking all of the classes, as much as I can, until I can go to State, so I don’t have to pay as much over there, ya’ know?

M: Are you trying to go to SF State? L: Yeah.

M: Cool.

L: I’m actually going to apply wherever, ya know, a lot of places, but State–I like to be close to the City.

…Voice 003: 0055 — 01:25: 45 sec

L: I’m certified as an EMT. I’m going to try and be a paramedic, but I need six months of experience and six months more of education to be a certified paramedic. It makes a big deal pay-wise, but work wise, it’s pretty much the same. There are six or seven medical procedures we cannot do without our medical control, but it’s good. And bar-tending on the side.

…Voice 003: 00:40 — 2:30: 2:35 min

L: At City College so far it’s light health, but at State I want to change to something with history so I could, like, probably go to Europe–Red Cross maybe. Have some medical education, know, like, four or five languages–

M: You know four or five languages? L: Yeah. M: What languages do you speak?

L: English was my third language, Russian was my second, Georgian was my first, German, and I’m struggling with Spanish. I don’t know Spanish, but I’m picking it up with people I work with. I work with a lot of Latin people. So that’s about it, but if I take it, it should be good. But I know I need at least three months in Europe or being in Germany to speak fluently, because I’m kind of forgetting it. If you don’t use it, it’s like a muscle, ya’ know.

…Voice 004: 00:00 — 00:35: 3:05 min L: What route are you going to take? What’s your main idea? What’s your topic going to be?

M: I was sort of waiting to talk to you. I was going to be really true to what you say and go from there. L: Sounds good, man. You want some coffee?

…Voice 005: 00:00 — 02:00: 5:05 min M: What can you tell me about where you’re from.

L: I’m from the Republic of Georgia. It’s considered Eastern Europe. On the east and west sides we have seas. On the north side we have the Caucasian Mountains bordering us from Russia. And to the south we have Turkey and Azerbaijan and all Muslim countries, pretty much. My country has always been in-between struggles–Ottoman Empire since back in the day because Georgia comes from the fourth century. Back in they day, they’ve been trying to make us Muslim and we were wanting to do Christianity so we combined with Russia and we were working together but when we got our independence, they would wouldn’t give it to us. They wanted land–

M: Are you talking about in 1990?

L: The first time was in 1981. It was a big genocide. Russian people came over with tanks and we had protests and they ran people over with the tanks. I remember I was about 5 years old and in 1991, it occurred again–a big one–and I remember some of my family’s relatives came in our house with AKs and stuff and were like, “We have to take you out of here.” And I remember my whole family–we had to go away from the capital city. We had to hide out for at least three days until things calmed down. So it was pretty bad at that time. It was so bad, actually, people were just thinking about surviving and maintaining.

…Voice005: 02:10 – 05:25: 8:20 min L: But then I lived through some peaceful times, I guess. From ’91 to 1999, it was pretty peaceful. I remember those times as pretty pleasant. Hanging out with friends, going to school, playing soccer–stuff like that. But economy wise, it’s always been a struggle because I always saw my parents, ya’ know, go through it. There where days where we had to survive for certain days and there were days where we were all good. It was ups and downs, but overall, I had a very positive…

M: Impression?

L: I had a very positive impression about my country.

M: When did you come to America? L: I came to the United States in 2001. And the way I came here was that my brother actually got here first and because of that war, actually he got… immunity, I guess. Political immunity. So the United States gave him a visa, gave him a passport, and gave him all the opportunities he could have and he used every piece of it and he pretty much made it here. He started with computer engineering and now he’s at Charles Schwab. Just a manager. So he’s doing alright. He’s doing very well, actually. So after five years he brought me here so yeah. That was about me and him at first. After that I took a placement test and tested into ESL at first in high school and freshman year was a little bit tough, not knowing the language, cultural customs, seeing all these people from different backgrounds, so it was difficult, but then sophomore year, I was alright. I moved out of the ESL. Junior year I was doing even better and senior year I did so well in the previous years that I only had to take five classes, I remember. I was getting out of school about 1:30 when people had to stay ’till 3 so…

M: That’s cool.

L: It was alright.

M: Where did you go to high school? L: I went to George Washington High School. It’s in the Richmond district of San Francisco–close to the beach.

M: So you moved straight to San Francisco when you…

L: Mmm hmm–straight to San Francisco, straight to high school. I thought I was gonna’ have to take some classes at John Adams. That’s where people that I kinda’ knew that were from different countries as well but they were going to those schools just to gain English. But I had some background back in Georgia. I was going to an English teacher and so I actually took languages very seriously because it was coming easy to me so I enjoyed it.

M: What can you tell me more about your childhood in Georgia, the happy times, I guess, or whatever? L: I respect–not respect, I actually see more clearly right now because people tell me enjoy these years, it’s gonna’ be the best years of your life because…

…Voice006: 00:00 — 05:55: 14:15 min

L …all you have to worry about is getting home on time, eating, and going back out to play again, I guess. And it was good up until 1997, my father, his car was sabotaged or something and his car blew up so my mother, father, and older brother, before coming here, they had to go to Russia because the medical field is much more better over there so he had to get treatment there for three years and I basically grew up with my grandmother and grandfather and I had to switch the neighborhood because I couldn’t stay in that place no more, that neighborhood. So my brother’s friends–by the way, he’s six years older than me–so his friends took care of me, showed me to places and things. I kinda’ grew up feeling that I was older than I was actually, ya know? Just because I was exposed to certain things, I guess, made me feel that I was wiser or bigger than other kids in my peer–and I believe until four years ago, I still used to think that way. It was a setback on me, ya’ know? I should have… yeah. I’m realizing now and I’m just going through it, my process. What else can I tell you about Georgia? It’s a very community based country–every body knows everybody. And on top of that, my grandfather, actually, in 1952 and in 1954 was a Georgian boxing champion and he was pretty well-known so me mentioning my last name and knowing that I was his grandson, everything was easy for me. I could have went anywhere and everybody was showing me a lot of attention and everybody was taking me places. It was good times for me. I couldn’t really experience that–I was in that age where I didn’t take it serious, right? And it was bad times. Now that I look back and see some documentaries on what really took place–literally three blocks away from my house, that’s where the big clash happened–protestors and army. And to look at it right now… I get goosebumps. Literally they used tanks to just run-over people and it was a genocide, I believe, it was horrible. But I didn’t really feel it, ya’ know? Summers were hot, in my city. So we owned a cabin in the mountains which was four hours away. Every summer, my grandfather and grandmother would take me out to the cabin, leave me out there, go back into the city, do whatever. I had some real family living there, friends, and everything. So for literally three months every summer, I would spend away, and come back to the city. Good memories, pretty much. Good memories. Besides, I guess, adolescence and just fighting, now and again. Overall, it was great.

M: Cool. What’s the biggest struggle you’ve faced, after coming to America.

L: The biggest struggle was… The struggle was changing the environment. Because I did that previously, like I told you–I had to change the neighborhood–and it was difficult for me because I was not in that age where I could just travel anywhere by myself. Friends that I really had, close ones, I kinda’ left them in that old neighborhood, which I wouldn’t visit no more. And just that idea that I had to do it allover again, just to pickup, but on a bigger scale–I’m not just switching neighborhoods, I’m switching countries. I guess the biggest struggle was depression, sadness that you miss people, nostalgic feelings of being around home, appreciating home cooking, home cooked meals, the language barrier, people from different countries, trying to understand them. Not everyone jokes, for example, the same type of jokes. Everyone has different morals, I guess, standards, logic, so I had to kinda’ adapt to it, but overall I had a good time. Right away, I made friends from places that I wouldn’t even think about–from Philippines to China to Arabian countries to–of course Russian people are very–a lot of them are by the Richmond district and Russians–speaking a Russian language helped me out because I was basically mostly with them. And the struggle I had to go through was… basically, I fought a lot because I didn’t understand certain things and I felt people were just… looking down on me, making fun of me. Just simple getting lost in the translations. I don’t want to say, but to me, mother@%#$@#, when somebody said that, I don’t want to say it on here, but to me, it meant something horrible. It meant that you were insulting my mother, and just because of that, I actually got kicked out of high school, and had to go through dropout preventions, and all that stuff. But once I grew up, kinda’, I adapted, I learned. Now I have friends where we just joke about it and don’t take it seriously. But basically, the biggest struggle was trying to fit in, make friends…

…Voice007: 00:00 — 05:55: 20:10 min

L: …try to fit in, just those times where you want to go back home. But then again, I had an older brother who guided me through it. He told me, “You’ll understand later,” and “This and that…” But basically my main struggle was the language barrier, cultural differences–not much of religious differences, not at all–mostly just cultural and language. M: Where would you say your home is now? L: Where my home is? I’ve been thinking about that a lot… a lot… I believe… And also, I want to rephrase something. We learned something in his class. We were talking about this person that came from Vietnam and I don’t know if you guys read that pamphlet again, I don’t know. We had to write a summary about it and in it he mentions how he was “old enough to still remember his country and still young enough to still adapt to this one.” And it really touched–I felt like I was still in that place. I was old enough to still have memories and still feel Georgian, I guess, I have pride in it. And I was young still enough that I was adapting to it so right now I consider myself Georgian American because every time I go somewhere, even my country–I went there a few times–I miss it here so much, I can’t even explain. I went to the East coast for two weeks, I couldn’t wait to get back. This is where I consider my home now. And I’m probably going to be here, probably raise a family here just to take them there, let them grow as my children, as understanding both, and being more open-minded and [indistinguishable]. It took me awhile to get rid of some of the ego-type of ways that I had imprinted in Georgia. A certain type of way that people carry themselves. A certain way that people are. I believe that I consider myself Georgian-American or American-Georgian, whichever, even though I’ve still got an accent–I don’t know why. I hope this is helpful.

M: That was a pretty heavy answer. That was pretty heavy. I guess you’ve already really answered this, but how have you changed since coming here? L: How have I changed? M: Or not?

L: I have progressed in many ways and in some way I feel like I have regressed as well. Mostly I believe I’ve changed… I used to think that being a Georgian was the best thing. I was so thankful that I was born Georgian, but the way I think about it right now is that I have a total different respect for just humans, humankind–it doesn’t matter where you’re from. I show respect to everybody and I treat everybody the way I want to be treated. Being like that tends to get me ahead because people tend to notice me, even in jobs. I’m out forward, outgoing, and I won’t do anything to piss people off. I wasn’t used to be like that back then. You looked at me wrong, I had to say something, I had to do something. I had a lot of things that I thought I had to stand up for even though they were very [indistinguishable]. But I’ve made my mistakes, I’ve learned from them, I try not to do stupid stuff again. But overall I believe my character just grew. One of the things I think about it is once a person is exposed to a lot more, or a lot, he kinda’ cannot go back to his natural habitat. I went to Georgia and people that said goodbye to me five years ago, literally five years ago, were literally still in the same yard playing cards dominoes, and I couldn’t stand it no more. I couldn’t live that way. I felt like I was cornered. I had no prospects in life. I don’t want to just live at my parent’s house, get a wife, and let my parents [indistinguishable]. It gave me more strength, it gave me more passion towards growing, learning, to become something. Not only something that my family’s proud, something that I could do for my country. And the reason I took paramedic was I was hoping to go back to Georgia. I used to buy some cars in auction here and send them back home. So I was thinking that maybe with this education I could ship vans, turn them into ambulances, and have an American-standard ambulance system with a medical field. Over there, it’s different. If someone is sick and you take them to the hospital, you pay for the bed, you pay for how many days they stay, you pay for the medicine. There’s no healthcare. Everything comes out of a person’s pockets.

…Voice008: 00:00 — 03:15: 23:25 min L: So my main intention is to improve things over there. Everything that I went through here and everything that I went through back there make me, I guess, I can’t say fearless or nothing, just made more more confident to achieve what I want to achieve, be what I want to be, and not only for myself, I want to do good to others–make my country proud. M: When I asked you this question, you said you like you both progressed and regressed. What have you lost, I guess?

L: I believe what I’ve lost is the sense of the family because people that are my age–so the way it is in Georgia, the education system–once you get in first grade up to twelfth grade you’re with the same classmates, literally, same classmates. You don’t change classrooms when you go to classes, teachers come to you. So you pretty much grow up with these people, they become your friends, your brothers, one of them may be your wife, ya’ know? And everyone that was in my grade over there, they all have families, they all have kids. They just made their own families. So I guess I’m missing out on that because in America, I’ve been through relationships, some long, some short, and I’m kinda’ like sometimes I feel like that’s maybe what I need, ya’ know? Not only feel, I miss–I want it. So I guess the most thing I’ve missed is the family part. I bet you if I was in Georgia right now at the age of 20 I would’ve got married, I probably would’ve got kids. I know so many people there that are my age that have two kids, one is 8, one is 6.

M: How old are you? L: I’m 28 years old. So when I see them, it brings me happiness. Seeing a little guy that is identical to his father and I remember him when he looked like we went to school together, all these things. That’s about it, I guess, and also I miss… I could’ve learned more about Georgian history while I was there. I didn’t take time doing it out here because I’m busy, always busy. After high school, I guess, I haven’t stopped working or school. I just had to work, support some family there, friends. To be honest, besides I got married and I got a kid, I haven’t heard good news. Somebody got into a crash, somebody passed away, somebody lost his bet–all the time there’s somebody that calls you and kinda’ ask something of you. They kinda’ demand a lot from you. I don’t miss that part. Hahaha! I’m just rambling around. But basically I missed out on the family. …Voice008: 04:10 – 10:45: 30:00 min M: What are your thoughts on American culture in general?

L: Wow, I could say a lot about that. In my opinion, to this day, when I think about America, I think about people from all over the world. Besides, I guess, Native Indians. I believe they are true Americans. But besides that, I think America was created on many people’s different cultural ideals and melting it all together. That’s why they’re so powerful and strong to this day. They have ideas from all over. Just people from everywhere, pretty much. I consider America to be a very powerful country, they are very influential, but however they do sometimes, certain things, where they just stir something up and just step aside and see what happens. That’s what they did in 2008. Russia wanted some land in Georgia. Georgia… we had friendly relationships with Russia but then America kinda’ like took our side, said that they would protect [indistinguishable]. Our Georgian president back then who got all his education in America went home and since 2005 ’till 2012, he really changed the whole mentality of Georgia. He already arrested all of these people who were criminals, mafia. There’s no corruption at all and he built new things. He wanted Georgia to go into the United Nations, but during all this process, I guess, he did two terms, 8 years, he kinda’ became a dictator. So people started hating him so they actually kicked him out and now they think the president is not really a president, he’s a vice president, but they’re so young and so inexperienced. I feel like they don’t know what they’re doing. I mean it was a success to get the word out, win the votes, not just corruption. People achieved what they wanted, that was great, but on top of that, we needed somebody who knows what they’re doing. They have a bunch of inexperienced young people in politics and government and there may be some wrong mistakes but it’ll take time, I believe, I can’t lose hope. But besides that, I’m grateful, man. America gave me all these opportunities, man, helped me out a lot. So I can only say great things about it. M: I know you said you weren’t really into politics, but what do you think about Russia today? L: Bullies. I believe they are vey bullies. They are very ignorant and I guess in some ways they are good for them, they don’t want to change, they don’t want to improve things–okay, I understand it, but you don’t have to stir some stuff up. You don’t have to influence others. You don’t have to take lands when they say no. You’ve got to let them be. So I believe Russia is a very powerful country. Not as powerful as they believe, actually, in my opinion, but I guess they have a lot of countries that are close to them that would kind of support them, but in my personal opinion, Russia is a bully. I can’t stand bullies. I kinda’ like it that Georgia is away from [indistinguishable]. I like it, but then again, you’re so close to them, they’re so huge, you kinda’ have to be careful what you gotta’ say, because they could easily do this–wipe us off the map and we’ve been coming from the fourth century and some stories in history books I read of fighting Chingis Kahn and all this and one thing he said, I believe, that stuck to my head that the two things he couldn’t conquer, Chingis–you know him, right? M: Yeah, he started Mongolia.

L: Yeah. Yeah, and also Shak Habas, he was an Ottoman king of the Ottoman Empire, Shak Habas, he mentioned that the two things he couldn’t conquer were death and Georgians. And when I heard that I was like, “woooow.” M: Wait, who said that? Chingis Kahn said this? L: No, Shak Habas. Shak Habas of the Ottoman Empire. But Mongolians, yeah, they came, the conquered us for a bit, but then we fought them off, we always fought them off, but with this era, this day and the technology, man, I don’t think it’s possible. I just want everybody to still be happy. I don’t want little stupid things to make them mad and [indistinguishable]. …but we are fearful of Russia, in that sense. M: So you said your brother works at… L: Charles Schwab. M: Charles Schwab. What’s the rest of your immediate family doing?

L: My mother was here for a minute. She actually came here at the age of 42. She went to school, got some education, she got some certificates as child development and other things. Then she worked at the workers compensation for about 8 years and then she went back home. I guess, for her, it’s much more difficult than it was for me because at that age you have all of the family and friends there. Me, for example, I was still young. That’s about it. My brother is here, he has a wife. He married a Brazilian woman, she’s wonderful. I joke with her about, Brazil’s loss the other day, she hates me for it. M: Hahahahaha!

L: I have a three year old nephew. I just adore him. I like him. I believe without coming to America, this family that I’m looking at wouldn’t happen. I’m just grateful [indistinguishable].

Hopeful for Home: From Burma to Myanmar to San Francisco

Hopeful for Home: From Burma to Myanmar to San Francisco
by Darius Bright, May, 2014

Julia is an international student in the United States from Myanmar, a nation previously called Burma, and still called Burma by many people who stand in opposition to its history of military rule. During the interview and this writing, I will primarily refer to the nation as Burma. Burma is located directly south of India, north of Thailand, west of China, and east of the Bay of Bengal. Julia is majoring in business in the United States, and education is her primary purpose for obtaining a student visa to study in the United States, and because of the restrictions on business and trade in Burma, a result of political influence. Burma is a constantly changing nation with frequent internal conflict. However, she is fortunately part of the racial and ethnic majority. Julia remains indecisive about whether she considers staying in the United States or whether she will return to her home country, because Burma is progressing, but slowly, so her indecisiveness comes from her simple life experiences and her optimistic vision of a better Burma, politically, socially, and economically. During my interview with Julia, we discussed her views on Burmese politics, conflicts, and culture.

There have been many changes in Burma, and many political conflicts in a relatively short amount of time. There are expected to be more changes and this gives Julia her hope for a democratic nation and homeland. Since 1989, Burma has officially been recognized as Myanmar. However, the nation is still called Burma by those who oppose the military takeover of the government. The nation that seemingly has two names is called Burma by the people who view Myanmar’s government as illegitimate. In an email conversation after the interview, I asked Julia, “Which name do you prefer,” and she told me that she did “not have a preference.” She said that, because she was born into a recent generation, she isn’t deeply immersed in politics. However, she does think that people who call the nation Burma do so because it was the name chosen by the former communist government. Because of Burma’s location, it has many ethnic groups from its surrounding countries, such as India, Thailand, China, and so forth. The largest religious affiliation is Buddhist, but there is a considerable presence of Islam, Christianity and Hinduism. The Burmese government was once overthrown from within in 1962, in an event known as a coup d’état, often shortened to coup, and defined by the Meriam Webster Dictionary as “a sudden exercise…especially the violent overthrow of an existing government by a small group.” Later, in 1974, there would be an organized government, which would only last until 1988, when a military coup gave the military power over the government, turning it into a military dictatorship. In that same year, anti-government riots broke out in protest for democracy. Troops from the State Law and Order Restoration Council (SLORC), which is the name given to the military regime in control, killed over 300 protestors. In the year following the riots, the nation was officially named Myanmar. In a span of twenty-seven years, Burma’s government has gone through three major changes and two significant riots. Because of these rapid changes, there is also hope for significant change in the future.

Concerning Julia’s question of whether or not to return to Burma, its answer appears to rest heavily on the potential future changes that could occur in Burma. Because politics affect everything there, Julia says she would go back “if things get better…They’re trying to get closer to democracy, because Aung\San Suu Ki.” Changes for the better are expected mostly from the success of the National League for Democracy (NLD), which was formed in 1988, and is led by Aung San Suu Kyi, the party’s General Secretary, and the daughter of the father of communist Burma, Aung San. She is also Buddhist and uses non-violent protest to promote democracy and human rights. For that reason as well, she won the Nobel Peace Prize. Julia is hopeful that the change towards democracy will come. It’s reported by Derek Tonkin, in Contemporary Southeast Asia, that the “NLD won 80% of the seats in the parliament and 59% of the national vote, during a multiparty election in 1990.” However, the SLORC would not accept her party’s victory, arrested her, and placed her under house arrest for fifteen years. According to Alison Koistinen, who wrote an article called “Peace Profile: Aung San Suu Kyi” in Peace Review, Aung San Su Kyi was arrested for “endangering the state,” though Julia believes that she can change Burma if given the chance. She says, “She makes many promises but progress moves slowly and people grow impatient.” She also states that if a significant change were to happen, it would be around 2015, but for now she is unsure. After Suu Kyi was released, she announced that she would run in the 2015 election. Julia told me, “She was actually under house arrest recently so like since she came out she is trying to change the policy in Burma. She is trying to put Burma into the part of democracy.” Suu Kyi won the first election and may win again. This tells me that Julia is full of hope for change and that change is dependent in Suu Kyi’s success. And it seems as if she has a tremendous amount of faith in her. When I asked Julia is she would go back to Burma, or if it would be worthwhile to stay here, she replied, “Yeah, because I need to get more experience, more experience here first, maybe I might, or if it goes well, then I will stay here.” Julia is majoring in business and is here because of the restrictions placed on owning a business in Burma. “There’s too much restriction for the business major, because, if you want some company, you need like…until 2015, we wouldn’t actually know how it goes.” She expects to acquire her experience and education here and use what she learns back home, but only if business restrictions are lifted. This is partly dependent on Suu Kyi’s success, because, if the country becomes more democratic, trade and business regulations will become more negotiable. For now, this is why Julia came to the United States and why she considers settling here.

Burma has some visible issues when one looks at the conflicts that arose over the span of twenty-seven years. Julia is fairly young and has no firsthand experience of the conflicts in Burma. She does, however, possess some knowledge about some of the conflicts that are present. One of the most important topics that Julia touched on was the topic of racism. She said that she only know a little bit about the history of racism in the United States. When talking about the United States in Burma, “the focus was mainly on politics.” She continued to say, “Actually, in Burma, we don’t have racism. Everything is equal. So, yeah, we don’t actually think much of it.” In a way, this is surprising because of the different racial and ethnic groups in Burma. Displaying a photo she took at school in Burma, students varied significantly in appearance. Revisiting that statement in an email for clarification, Julia retracted her statement: “It would be wrong to say that there is no racism going on. It’s probably the way and place I grew up. In that, we don’t have to deal with such matters.” While the racial ethnic conflict was virtually non-existent in her life, she does have some knowledge about it. “I guess you can check on ‘Rohingya’ in Burma and you might be able to find conflicts,” she suggested. In an article entitled “The Potential Role of Racial Segregation in Burma,” published in Forced Migration Review, Nathan Willis wrote: “Ethnic discrimination has long fueled violence and displacement within Myanmar [Burma], especially in relation to people of Rohingya ethnicity, who have been fleeing their home in the ‘tens of thousands’ in 2013 alone.” Though Rohingya is not a race, because race describes physical characteristics, ethnic groups under persecution tend to find themselves in the middle of a racial conflict if people of said group look similar. In the same article, Willis writes, “In recognition that no state is immune from racism, legislators need to take seriously the need to enshrine a legislative response.” Buddhist is still primarily Buddhist with around 80% of the people practicing Buddhism. While racism is certainly present in this conflict, because Julia was part if the middle class and the demographic majority, if is very possible that she never witnessed this conflict. When I asked her about a moment that she will never forget, she spoke of simple pleasures: “Well, there’s lots of things. Like, going on a field trip with friends from school, and there are lots of events that I, you know, like I get to go with my family for vacation, but there wasn’t anything particular.” Her response is not something one would expect from a person coming from hardship. Because if this, she doesn’t share the push factors of immigrants who risk their lives crossing the United States border. Most of her life was simple and peaceful.

The way Julia describes her traditions in Burma is very much like the way one would describe the traditional values of a typical American family a couple of decades ago. Even though some aspects of Julia’s experience with her culture seem analogous to those in much of the United States, her nostalgia for her culture serves as a powerful pull factor in her desire to return home. When asked about her traditions, one example she gave was: “Example, a girl have too many boyfriends, it’s not really good for the girl, I mean how the society views the girl. So, like, you know, like, they don’t think good of them. Well, I guess it doesn’t really matter much right now. In the past, it really mattered. For mothers, they’re still under the tradition.” This example is very much like the traditional values that are still present in places around the United States. Many of her experiences with tradition were as simple as this example. She goes on to say, “Because, like, in Burma, it’s like the old age where boys and girls are treated differently, so, like, the girls, they have a lot of restrictions that girls can’t do.” Though the lines drawn by conventional gender roles have been blurred in most parts of the United States, these same traditions are still present and are still being challenged. These social and cultural expectations are analogous to those a couple of decades ago in the United States. Julia even admitted, “It doesn’t really matter now.” This suggests that times are changing and that these somewhat analogous cultural experiences would make adjusting to life in the United States manageable. The only real difference that I found in the cultural traditions of the two countries is that in Burma it would be considered strange to hug among friends. She explains, “No, they don’t hug; they just usually greet.” You know, put on the hand on the shoulder, but no hugs.” Hugging seems to be associated only with romantic relationships.

Julia’s only misgiving about what she has perceived in American culture and tradition is that families seem disconnected. Stronger family values and relationships are two of the main factors that she misses and would go back to Burma for. “I like the system where the family grows up. Since I got here, I sort of feel there are some problems for families here. For that, in Burma it’s really rare for those kinds of problems. Not really rare, but the majority of families are doing well.” The tighter family bonds in Asian families stands in contrast to the bonds in families in the US. This is most likely a result of the collective societies typical in Asia. Julia came to the United States because her career goals revolve around her business major and she says that she “wouldn’t go back to Burma for business.” Even though these restrictions on business and trade are the primary push factor pushing Julia out of her homeland, Julia would rather raise a family back home, which is a significant pull factor.

Burma’s government, economy, and society are in a transitional state. There are hopes that the country will eventually transition to a democratic system with open trade and human rights laws, though these same transitions are why she left in the first place. They affect her educational goals, her career, and those of the whole country. While she considers staying in the States if things do not improve, there is no doubt that she feels a sense of belonging in her homeland and that she will always identify herself as Burmese. Julia believes that a democratic Burma can alleviate many of the nation’s troubles and hoes that Aung San Suu Kyi can bring them there.

Works Cited

Koistinen, Alison. Peace Review. Sept. 2003, p. 349. Academic Search Premier.
Willis, Nathan. “The Potential Role of Racial Discrimination in Myanmar. Forced Migration Review. Feb. 2014. Issue 45, pp. 82-83. Academic Search Premier.

Tonkin, Derek. “The 1990 Elections in Myanmar: Broken Promises or a Failure in Communication.” Contemporary Southeast Asia: A Journal of International and Strategic Affairs. Apr. 2007. 29.1. 33-54. Print. Academic Search Premier.

Sample Transcripts

Me: Julia you’re from Burma, correct?

Julia: Correct.

Me: Why did and your family move to the U.S.?

Julia: Actually, it’s just Me and my brother. We came as international students. So like umm, we just came for studying and the education.

Me: Just for the education.

Julia: Yes.

Me: But you would think about moving back?

Julia: Yeah, I guess I would, like after graduation maybe.

Me: Maybe.

Julia: Yeah, because I need to get more experience, more experience here first. Maybe I might or if it goes well then I’ll stay here.

Me: Ok, so um, is there anything here that uh, that you believe that’s worth while staying here for?

Julia: Yeah, probably the, probably, because of the law, because in Burma the (inaudible), yeah because the different… there’s too much restriction for the business major. Because, like, if you want some company you need like…until of 2015 we wouldn’t actually know how it goes; the politics and Burma goes so we’re not really sure. So…

Me: And that’s what your major is, business?

Julia: Yes, [my] major is business.

Me: Ok, what was uh, and you were there from what age?

Julia: I was there from like, before I turned 17. Around 17 years

Me: Is there something you’ll never forget as a child in Burma?

Julia: Well, there’re lots of things, like going on the field trip with friend in school, and there are lots of evens that I, you know, like I get to go with my family for vacation but there wasn’t anything particular. (inaudible)

Me: Ok, and uumm, so you friends, so like were there different groups there where you were treated differently like?

Julia: No.

Me: Because I was reading about the military takeover.

Julia: Oh, right. There is that, like, there like different groups like normal people and there are the military. Right now it’s going sort of well, but in the past there are only two kind of groups normal people and the military and the military gets you know, better how do you say, uh, they get lots of opportunities, chances, in terms of business and stuff while normal people have to try hard. And you know for military you can bribe and stuff. Like it’s easy to get rich for the military.

Me: I see. So they are like the upper class?

Julia: Yeah, sort of like that.

Me: Wow, so any one can be part of the military?

Julia: It depends, yeah, it sort of depends. It’s been for years so, well there is actually, well anyone can be military but it does not mean like, all, everyone in the military gets to be you know, upper class.

Me: Ok.

Julia: It’s for the higher ranked.

Me: And you’ve never had any harsh experiences while you were there or with any of these divisions or…

Julia: No.

Me: I imagined, like any other country, it’s different from the U.S., so is there any particular culture shock you had here?

Julia: Well, the first thing I was shocked, well it’s not actually culture, but ten, no I wasn’t really shocked but then it was something, wasn’t something I was comfortable with first, at first like when you see each other, you greet when you hug right? But in Burma, it wasn’t like that. It’s sort of like hard for me to respond like when people hug but I’m getting used to it.

Me: And these would be friends, right?

Julia: Yeah, these would be friends.

Me: So, even friends in Burma don’t usually hug?

Julia: No, they don’t hug—they just usually greet. You know, pat on the shoulder but no hugs. Except for like, couples.

Me: Is there any cultural reasons for why they don’t hug or…

Julia: Not really, because, uh, especially between you know different genders. Yeah, I mean, the opposite gender. Because like in Burma it’s like since the old age where girls and boys are like treated differently. So like girls, they have lots of restriction that girls can’t do.

Me: And so if they hug a male…

Julia: Because it’s like how society view them.

Me: How does society view them?

Julia: For example, [if] a girl has too many boyfriends, it’s not really good for the girl. I mean how the society view the girl. So like, you know like, they don’t think good of them. Well, I guess it doesn’t really matter right now. In the past it really matters. For mothers, they’re still under the tradition.

Me: Can you tell me a little bit about your closest friends in Burma and your closest friends here?

Julia: Actually, my closest friend here is also Burmese, so like, how do you want me to tell them?

Me: I was wondering if you would just, uh, compare the two like if you had any close friends you have in the US back to your friends back home.

Julia: How we communicate?

Me: How you communicate, um, your different beliefs, um, how you do you interact, values…

Julia: Even my friends from Burma, they, some of them, they actually go here. So different how we view things. Like, the Burmese way of tradition where things are like going out late at night is not really good, for girls. It’s not really good to go out late at night but for here you know, we can just go out. And like friends will come out at night. At first, it was hard for me to do it. And later I get used to it.

Me: How did you feel when you were called out late at night? Was it for like, parties or just to drink?

Julia: Yeah, just to go and drink, because they know I wouldn’t go if it was for party, so it’s just for drinks for now. Maybe for parties later, I guess. Because we don’t actually party in Burma, so.

Me: Do you think that if you decide to go back to Burma you will miss going out late whenever you want?

Julia: Well, sort of. Well, it’s not actually hard. It’s harder for not how society views it, more how our parents restrict us from going out.

Me: To you, what does it mean to be Burmese?

Julia: There are lots of restriction but I sort of like it. In a way, they draw a border for how much a girl can do. But I guess if a US person go to Burma and follow the tradition, I think they would be so restricted and so they wouldn’t be able to follow it because it’s too much restriction you couldn’t do this or that. There are lots of things you can’t do.

Me: What is TV like in Burma? Or, like, when you read a newspapers, the media, what is it like if you were to compare it to what you see here? For me, living in the US, when I turn on the TV, it’s always someone gets murdered, or some bad news, or lots of sex, and you know.

Julia: We have different channels. Well, we can either watch channels that are related yes but also there are local channels. But for local channels it’s mainly how the military’s doing good for the society. So surface, same with the newspaper. They don’t dare write bad things about the military. It’s like for here, they are more open for what’s going on. So Burma, if you write anything bad about the military the guy would get in trouble.

Me: I see, so, when you see any of this going on in the United States, where we talk about, you know, the senator getting in trouble, we point out things , just like basically everything you see. Were you surprised?

Julia: I was sort of expecting it.

Me: Oh, you were expecting it?

Julia: Just like how it’s restricted in Burma, there are also some philosophy how the U.S. can be saying this stuff if it is on the news and stuff so you can sort of imagine how it would go here.

Me: And did you have any feeling or a thought that like before you got here that you can do what you want?

Julia: Yes, sort of, a bit.

Me: Because, that seems to be something a lot of people think. Oh, you go to the U.S you do what you want.

Julia: Well, I guess there are some laws and restriction.

Me: So your country doesn’t have a set curfew for women?

Julia: You mean how we get back home?

Me: There is no law for the curfew?

Julia: No.

Me: Here, they tried to at one point to make a law. I come from Chicago, so I’m not from California. At one point, they tried to make a law there was a law that if anyone under age 17 that if they are out pass a certain time, the police can pick them up and take them to their parents’ house and give them a ticket.

Julia: That’s different.

Me: Yeah, I don’t know if they’re still doing that now but Chicago has really bad crime. A lot of a lot of the crime is done by young people.

Julia: I guess it didn’t go really well.

Me: I don’t think it did but, I left Chicago when it was going on.

Julia: Well, just parents do the curfew.

Me: Was it hard to be a transfer student?

Julia: I was expecting it to be hard but it wasn’t as hard as I think, because I thought maybe, you know, uh, I would have, you know, because this is a community college, so I was expecting since it’s college, I was expecting really, really high education and that I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t understand it. But, then, unexpectedly, I think I understood it well. I think it’s because there are lots of lots of classes that start from the basics, right? I was expecting not to start at the basic and just go to the high level.

Me: I think, what I’m trying to ask you is if it was physically hard to come to school here from Burma. Did you have a program or something to help you get over?

Julia: No. Umm, I think it’s mainly because my brother is here, so he is the one who handles all the stuff. So I just go.

Me: Is he a citizen here?

Julia: No, international student.

Me: So, right now your brother is probably the closest person you have. But is there anyone in your family you’re close to, like your mom or dad uncle aunt?

Julia: Yeah, I’m really close to my family but I don’t meet them.

Me: I mean, like, emotionally. For me, I was always close to my grandmother because she was always there, and she always supported me and made me feel good about myself and stuff like that.

Julia: I guess it would be my mother.

Me: And she pretty much supports what you do?

Julia: Yeah. If she doesn’t like it, she would say it but it’s up to me to decide on it.

Me: How did she feel about you coming here?

Julia: Actually, she support it.

Me: I was wondering if your mom was worried.

Julia: Oh yeah, she super worried but she worried too much she would always say like on Skype we communicate, like be careful and stuff and repeating the whole thing. And even my brother say she is like a recorder saying it over and over again. But then she also knows she can’t do anything so she can’t just come here and stop me. It’s actually hard to get a visa to come here.

Me: You brought up the military, that if you wrote something bad about the military you get in trouble. Do you go to jail?

Julia: Yeah, you either go to jail or sometimes the public does not know what happens.

Me: Oh, I see, like you go like missing, or they can’t find you.

Julia: Well, I think it’s mainly the jail, that person normally goes to jail for writing a small piece of news in the newspapers. I think they get sentenced to like around two digits a year like either 50 years or 30 years, I guess. Because I hear lots of news from the TV, like private news. Private means like the military are not aware of it but there is no locals listen to it. I think they are called like V.O.A.

Me: Wow, you said like 50 years?

Julia: From what I know, there are people, like, actually, there was a riot going on in 1988. I guess then those people that was against the military were put in jail and I guess they’ve been there for like 50 years.

Me: Because of that, do you know how your parents feel about the military or anything? They never talk about it, right?

Julia: Well, they do actually.

Me: So, they talk about how they feel about the military at home?

Julia: Yeah, sort of, they do. Actually, all the time.

Me: But it’s not good it.

Julia: Well, you can talk between families because they normally do. But then as long as long as you don’t do it by action, it don’t really matter.

Me: Oh, so you can say something outside.

Julia: Actually, 90 percent of people say their something outside.

Me: But as long as they don’t write it in the newspaper.

Julia: Newspaper, or like every, you know, everybody actually knows whether they write it in the newspaper or not. As long as they don’t act it out, take actions. Because, you know, like I can’t remember the time, but there was a year when there was a riot again. It was recent. I think in 2005 or 2003, where the military shot lots of people.

Me: The protesters for the riot, they weren’t breaking anything, were they?

Julia: No, they were just, you know, on the street rioting. They were just going against power.

Me: Kind of like here with signs and talking.

Julia: Yeah, it’s like going against power.

Me: You see that a lot here. There was something called the umm…
[baby is crying loudly]

Me: I’m just gonna wait.

Me: So we had something called the Occupy Movement, where people were gathering and protesting the fairness for all the money that rich people make and how poor people get more poor. Were you here during that time?

Julia: No, I just am here like 2012, I guess.

Me: Yeah, that was around this time, so you didn’t see it?

Julia: No, I don’t read that much of the news.

Me: Ok, I was wondering if that made you nervous.

Julia: Well, not really because I was expecting this kind of stuff to happen and government won’t do as much, take that much of action like in Burma.

Me: How do the Burmese in general see the United States in general?

Julia: Freedom of speech, I guess.

Me: That’s it?

Julia: There was a thing about how people be free. It was more how the whole world would describe as democracy.

Me: One thing that people think about the United States is freedom, this freedom that, but did anything about, like, did you guys know anything about the racism or the discrimination that goes on?

Julia: I sort of know it but for general reason most of the adults in there, they normally think more to the how there is freedom because of the different leadership. More politics than racism. They think more about politics in Burma. Actually, in Burma, we don’t have racism; everything is equal. You know, equally likely. So, yeah, we don’t really actually think much of it.

Me: Even here in San Francisco, it was very racist towards Asians or anyone of Asian descent, just basically anyone who is not white. Even during World War 2, where they took the Japanese and put them into internment camps. Back then everyone Asian looked Japanese. Sometimes they would put Chinese and you know everyone there. And that happened only like more than 50 years ago. I was wondering if anyone knows about the things that happened like that.

Julia: Ummm, no.

Me: I figured. So, how do you feel about the military takeover or the politics?

Julia: Well, actually right now the military takeover is over in Burma. They’re trying to get back to like, closer to democracy. Because Aung San Suu Kyi right? You know, the lady in Burma? Aung San Suu Kyi?

Me: Yeah.

Julia: She was actually under house arrest until recently so, like, since she came out, she is trying to change the policy in Burma. She is trying to put Burma into the part of democracy. However, some people, because of the promises she make, promises she make with some people about how she would change the policy and laws, but there are some people who are impatient. They want it really recent.

Me: Like right now.

Julia: Yeah, right now. So, in those cases, I actually really thought like those kind of people should stop the military from Burma. Some people are patient like they understand how long time, like how long it would to take for the actual things to happen. But for some people, they are impatient; they want it to happen right now. Me and my friend would normally say how they see the military better than how Aung San Suu Kyi is doing the things. We just feel like they aren’t understanding.

Questions Answered by Email [Post Interview]

Me: Hi. Thanks for the interview. I will like to ask a few more questions.

Why do you call your country Burma instead of Myanmar?

Do you practice Buddhism here? How do you?

Julia: Burma was the initial name of the country before it changed to Myanmar in 1989.

However, from my experience, most foreigners use ‘Burma’ more than ‘Myanmar’ to describe my country. I would normally get a response where they asked me where ‘Myanmar’ is and would only get it when I rephrase my words to Burma. Since the name was changed in 1989, during the time when I learned my language, it would be written in a way where it would be pronounced “Myanmar” but we still call people in our country “Burmese.” Because “Burma” is the name that was given to our country by the hero and savior of the country, “Aung San,” so some people continue to believe that it is the actual name for the country.

I am a Buddhist so I do practice Buddhism but I am not the orthodox type. I am not familiar with what is in San Francisco so I rarely visit and pay respect at the monastery here. However, I say my prayers every day as a way to respect both Buddha and my family at home. Although we normally have a Buddha statue at home, since I am temporary living in San Francisco, I don’t have that. I believe that what matters is that I pray from my heart and soul and that physical form is not required in order to practice Buddhism.
Hopes this help. If you have further questions, feel free to ask me.

Me: I was wondering if you have a preference for calling you’re county Burma or Myanmar, and if you do, then why?

Julia: I guess I missed answering the actual question. I, myself, do not have any preferences to how I call my country, maybe because I am part of a younger generation who has lesser interest in politics. However, there are still some people who choose to call Burma than Myanmar. The reason I could think of would probably the fact that Burma is given by Aung San (father of the country) and people want to honor the name he had given, especially when the government and the citizens were not on a really good term when the name was changed.

Me: Also, can you describe the place you grew up, like your neighborhood? And the people who live around you? Was it peaceful, lively?

Also, can you tell me more about the statement, “we don’t have racism in Burma”? or did you mean it another way, maybe or is it just for where you live?

Julia: I used to live in an apartment, the bottom floor. What is different from the apartment in Burma and the apartments here is that in Burma, apartments are cheaper and more affordable because of they are not as spacious as single housing. It is fun living in apartments in Burma because without making much effort, neighbors just surround us before we know it. There are also quite a lot of stores and food stands around that neighborhood. There are a lot of festivals in Burma and that is one of the ways that we become close to our neighbors.

However, my family later moved to a single housing neighborhood. Things are not as lively as before. People would only greet when we need face to face. Other than that, everyone is busy with his/her own chores and jobs. It is kind of lonely in that house and sometimes I miss my times in the apartment.

As for the question on racism, it would be wrong to say that there is no racism going on. It is probably the way and place I grew up in that I didn’t have to deal with such matters. In the apartment neighborhood I lived in, we have lots of people of color for our neighbors. And I don’t see any problems between our neighbors and they are also really great people. They would share the sweets they made on their religious festival to everyone in the neighborhood.

The case of racism was not really that bad that it would cause trouble in the past. However, there are hot topics on issues close to racism and discrimination in the past year. It is still going on. I guess you can check on “Rohingya” in Burma and you might be able to find the conflicts happening in Burma. This is the latest topic that would relate to racism in Burma.

From A Refugee’s Perspective: Life in the U.S. and Iraq

From A Refugee’s Perspective: Life in the U.S. and Iraq
by Lujain Alobaide, June, 2014

Voice of Witness is a project that has launched several books illuminating human rights abuses. Their oral history interviews include immigrants who have encountered human rights abuses at the hands of their oppressive homeland regimes, human traffickers, employers, and law enforcement. In our English class at CCSF, we also conducted oral history interviews with immigrants who may or may not have necessarily suffered human rights abuses. In doing so, we urged them to debunk myths about immigrants and reflect on their experiences in both their homelands and their new host-country. I decided to interview a friend and fellow Iraqi. Adel was born in Baghdad in 1997, when severe economic sanctions were placed on the nation after its attempt to invade Kuwait. After six years of his unfortunate childhood, the United States of America, along with several international forces combined, declared war on Iraq and occupied the country after almost three weeks of battle and the almost complete destruction of the infrastructure of the country. Life was extremely rough on Iraqis, especially for children, who encountered all kinds of widespread corruption at every level of government and society. After seven years of insecurity due to ethnic killings between Sunis and Shittes, Adel and his family immigrated to the U.S., the country that had so negatively impacted Iraqis’ lives; however, having the blessing of being safe was more significant than worrying about who had planted the roots of the problems. Although there are some inherent disadvantages of living in the U.S. for Adel and his family, he mainly spoke about the overall advantages the U.S. offers in comparison to Iraq: the opportunity to live in an advanced and productive society, the modern educational system, and the ability to live in better and safer conditions despite the new loss of financial security.

Adel believes that his family was destined to come to the United States sooner or later. His father, Oday, wanted to move to the U.S. even before the invasion because he believed that his prospects would be brighter in the land of dreams; indeed, I learned later that he was mainly influenced by his American brother. Adel’s grandfather gave Oday the permission to travel, but on the condition that he marry first. After he got married, Adel’s grandfather was disabled and completely paralyzed. After this sad incident, Oday became the head of the family, and it was inappropriate for him to leave his disabled father behind. After a few years, his father died, his sister got married, and the door was open again to the possibility of immigrating to the U.S. in 2004. Oday successfully convinced his kids and wife to move there someday. As Adel told me, “It was planted in our minds that we will immigrate someday.” Furthermore, he participated in a lottery that could grant him a green card right away. Oday was extremely eager to travel in 2004 since he had a job waiting for him, but all his attempts had failed until he learned about the International Organization for Migration. Although it was a long and tedious process, Adel’s cousin urged them to apply, especially after one of Oday’s partners took his money and had threatened to kill him. Therefore, the family moved to Jordan and then to the U.S.

Adel started to express his ideas about some advantages he gained after moving to the U.S., such as the freedoms of speech and expression that were denied to him and his fellow Iraqis before. He discussed the simplest example that he could give and said, “In Iraq, a student could neither express his opinions nor argue or disagree with his teacher’s opinion” in middle school. He certainly thinks that the U.S. offers a certain level of freedom of speech and expression. Indeed, Iraqis’ opinions and freedom of speech were greatly suppressed and banned before and after the war of 2003. Mouwaffaq Al-rifa’I, in his brilliant article “False Hopes,” addresses the fact that with the current political instability, freedom of speech and press suffered greatly before and after Saddam’s regime. The government in Iraq was so oppressive that all oppositionists had to flee from Iraq, and the press had one duty, to praise the president and his family. If any politician or ordinary citizen criticized the government and the president in particular, he or she would be prosecuted. More recently, people may not criticize the government unless they are willing to risk their lives. Unfortunately, the issue of freedom in Iraq was so restricted even to a child-like Adel, who saw a huge distinction between the two countries.

We also discussed the pros and the cons of Iraqi society versus American society, and Adel agreed that Americans have a more individualistic life than the family-oriented lifestyle of Iraqis; nevertheless, he prefers it since it has enabled the Americans to become a more advanced and productive society. He complains the Iraqi community still has its despicable age-old tradition of caring too much about gossip and the fact that they often impose on a person’s privacy by asking personal questions. Adel claims that he and his family have abandoned those habits. Adel explained that in Iraq,“People have plenty of leisure time; they have nothing to do, while here you have to work a lot.” To a certain extent, I disagree with him. Most people in the U.S. have no time for any kind of social life in comparison to Iraqis. Adel agreed with me, yet said once again that people care more about work, probably indicating that this is what places the U.S. among the most developed countries in the world. Adel perceives life in the U.S. as a very practical, work-oriented type of lifestyle, while family and gossip is always the priority for his fellow Iraqis. He mentioned that “A typical day of an Iraqi is working from 8:00 am to 3:00 pm, and then enjoying the rest of the day with their families.” Then he severely criticized his own people and called them mostly “lazy folks,” placing huge importance on secondary matters such as food, saying “People live to eat, not eat to live” while Americans are hard-working folks. For the most part, it is certainly significant for any country to be advanced to maintain its work productivity; however, that doesn’t justify the almost lack of social life among Americans. It’s clear that the fact that Adel has grown up in Iraq during war-time has negatively impacted the way he looks at his society, while he appreciates living in what he calls a “productive society.”

Although many Americans criticize their education system, Adel believes that the United States education system is much better than the education systems in both Iraq and Jordan. Adel experienced a great deal of suffering due to the educational practices that were common in Iraq after the American invasion in 2003. Adel summed up his experience by saying, “I passed my classes by bribing my teachers.” In Iraq, several teachers forced him to pay for useless private sessions in order to pass the classes. For instance, although he admitted he neither spoke, wrote, nor understood any English, he was exempted from taking the final exam, since it was merely about paying money to teachers behind closed doors. Furthermore, in other subjects such as Arabic, Math, or even Islamic Studies, he would either pay for a private session or one of his classmates would give him a copy of the test after obtaining it by bribing that particular teacher. When Adel moved to Jordan, things became even worse for him. Teachers abused their authority by beating their students, using thick pieces of wood, small aluminum pipes, or other instruments, which caused him to hate going to school. Obviously, education was one of several aspects of Iraqis’ lives that were utterly destroyed by corruption and bribery. While in Jordan, that particular school hadn’t yet purged the old barbaric practice of corporal punishment, which indeed caused Adel not only to hate the school, but also to hate his memories of Jordan. On the other hand, schools in the U.S. allow students to pick their classes after consulting with their advisers and there is no inhumane treatment of students. Hence, studying in the U.S. represents a great opportunity for Adel to expand his educational experience, and start loving school.
Like many immigrants, Adel’s first impression of the U.S. has its own unique taste of mixed emotions, and Adel felt that some medical agencies had discriminated against him since he came from Iraq, while he felt he was treated with great sympathy and respect in his two-week middle school experience for the same reason. As any new immigrant, Adel and his family, accompanied by his uncle, applied for social security numbers as their first step in the long process of obtaining green cards and then applying for citizenship. One of the requirements is a medical check-up, during which he felt he was subject to unnecessary shots because the nurses knew he was from Iraq. They felt obligated to prevent any kind of diseases from spreading because of the radiation that was left over after the shelling. He also mentioned that his uncle’s wife, who is an Irish-American nurse, was surprised and annoyed by the amount of medicine and shots they were injected with. Adel remained sick for two weeks and believed it was due to the excessive and unnecessary medicine. In contrast, one week after living in the U.S., he attended the last two-weeks of middle school in Oroville, California. Adel felt utterly welcome despite the language barrier. He said, “I spoke very few words, like five or six, such as hi, how are you? And these kind of stuff.” Students urged him to come by and sit with them at lunch time, while the kindness of his music teacher impressed him. Adel said, “Every morning I would go to see a band practicing. One day, he posted a sign saying not to enter, so I didn’t. Next day I saw him and he told me that I’m an exception to the rule, and that I can actually enter.” His teacher was extremely sympathetic and respectful because he knew what it really meant for a kid to be living in Iraq at that time. Although it was a minor type of discrimination, Adel felt insulted by the way he was treated according to that labeling of being an Iraqi, while on the contrary, Adel’s two-week experience in middle school not only made him love going to school, but also helped him successfully integrate into American life.

Adel’s family was considered a middle-class family in Iraq, given that his father was an electrical engineer, while he is currently among the working class in the U.S., so I touched on this sensitive area regarding the governmental assistance his family is receiving. Adel’s family receives both food stamps and cash aid, so I asked him about how they met their living expenses. He explained that they rented out their home in Iraq, and used that money combined with government assistance to make ends meet. I plunged in into one of the most widespread misconceptions regarding immigrants and I informed him that some Americans view those who take government assistance, such as his family, as parasites. He responded, “We have only finished three years in total and that if we will be taking it for more than five years, the myth become valid.” Adel had forgotten that his father is unable to practice his profession since his degree isn’t recognized in the U.S. Indeed, he must study for a couple years to earn the equivalent degree. In the meantime, he is actively looking for a part-time job that can accommodate his medical conditions, while Adel’s mother is currently working part-time. Indeed, after Adel got his job at McDonald’s and his mother started working at Costco, the county reduced their benefits by more than half. His personal experience is just one among thousands of people who are wrongfully accused of being parasites. Although there are some prejudices against immigrants like Adel, he is very resilient and able to deal with them and with the lower-level of financial income that his family now has.

One of the reasons why Adel has such a negative impression of his homeland is the overall corruption trend in Iraqis’ lives. According to the United States Department of Justice’s report on the overall status of Iraq in 2013, ten years after the war ended, the severe human rights abuses still persist. That said, the three most important ones are:
“politically motivated sectarian and ethnic killings, including by the resurgent terrorist network led by al-Qaida and its affiliate, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), formerly known as al-Qaida in Iraq (AQI); torture and abuses by government actors and illegal armed groups; and a lack of governmental transparency, exacerbated by widespread corruption at all levels of government and society.”

Iraq has been the best place for terrorist groups to seek shelter. This fact, in addition to the government’s unlawful actions against civilians, led to 6564 fatalities in 2013. Arbitrary arrest and long-term imprisonment without trial was widespread in the last decade. Human rights abuses and degrading treatment in prison and detention centers that usually lack clean water and electricity were very common as well. Moreover, many other international agencies that advocate and monitor human rights were banned from access to sensitive locations like prisons and detention centers. Corruption on the governmental level was so bad that it was reported that 60 percent of the country government employees were bribed, and several citizens confessed that they were compelled to pay bribes an average of four times a day. In addition, government officials were found to be guilty of stealing public funds, and the total of the first ten months of the same year was found to be 112 million dollars. Previously mentioned, conditions and others has created such a negative depiction in Adel’s mind regardless of what the roots of the original problem are.

One of the biggest advantages the U.S. has to offer became apparent as Adel spoke about one of his harrowing experiences in Iraq. A few weeks after the official occupation of Iraq, an Iraqi missile fell on his family home while they were eating lunch; in Adel’s own words, “It fell down exactly on the room that was above us. If there was nothing to block it, it would have fallen on us. If we [hadn’t] died from its heavy weight, we would probably [would have] died from its extremely high heat.” Luckily, it was a defective missile, and when it fell down, only half of it fell. Adel’s family were enjoying their lunch, when his aunt stood up and started washing dishes. The shelling didn’t really sound that severe, at least compared to three weeks of continuous shelling. His father thought that the shelling was just starting earlier than the usual, when his mother observed that the neighbors were actually pointing at their house. The neighbors told his father that there was some smoke coming from the backyard. His father went upstairs to find a cloud of smoke, and then ordered the entire family to evacuate the house. Police officers and firefighters arrived. More than ten men equipped with different kinds of rags and gloves crawled down the stairs with the missile and placed it in their truck. It was really heavy and extremely hot, and caused major cracks on their stairs. They were all terrified; however, they had some type of metal air-conditioner holder that had a cubic shape, which stopped the missile from getting into the kitchen and most likely ending their lives. Probably, the paramount advantage is the security he enjoys while living in the U.S., which was perfectly expressed in his own words: “at least [in the U.S] I could put my head on the pillow without having to worry about if some militia will raid on our house and kills us… ” For the most part, almost every war-refugee would agree that having the grace of safety is always the number one advantage the host country can provide for with.

Although living in the U.S. has its disadvantages for Adel and his family, he sees the U.S. as a place that has provided him with safe living conditions, access to a well-developed education system, and the chance to live in a productive society. Being a refugee and child in a time of war has greatly impacted the way Adel views his homeland, especially in comparison to the U.S. Iraq has been under harsh conditions since the first Gulf War of 1980. War after war, combined with economic sanctions and isolation from the international community has spurred many Iraqis like Adel to emigrate to more advanced societies that can provide them with basic human needs. Indeed, the majority of Iraqi immigrants have fled the country due to the utterly unsafe living conditions, which is a natural human merit that makes any human favor living in the safer country. Therefore, home for Iraqis is the place where safety can be found, and basic human rights are granted. Probably the best statement that describes why Adel and other Iraqi children might not admire their original country is found in Shereen T. Ismael Article, “The Cost of War: The Children of Iraq.” Ismael said, “Peace is the nurture of happy children.” Therefore, violence combined with widespread insecurity and corruption makes the United States the best provider for Adel and his family’s needs, which were lacking in his homeland country.

Work Cited

Abdullha, Adel. Personal interview. 7 March 2014.

Ismael, Shereen T. “The Cost of War: The Children of Iraq.” Journal of Comparative Family Studies 38.2 (2007): 337-357. Academic Search Premier. Web. 17 May 2014.

United States. Dept. of Justice. “Iraq 2013 Human Rights Report.” The United
State Department of Justice. Virtual Law Library, May. 2014. Web. 15 May 2014.

Rifa’i, Mouwaffaq Al. “False Hopes.” Index on Censorship 36.3 (2007): 35-43. Academic Search Premier. Web. 10 May 2014.

Interview Transcripts

I told my friend Adel previously about the project and he agreed to be interviewed by me.

Lujain: Adel tell me about your life in Iraq.

Adel: Should I speak in English?

Lujain: You don’t have to.

Since I knew that he would express himself much better in Arabic than English. Arabic was the language spoken between us throughout the interview. In addition, please not that these are not the entire transcripts; this is only some part of the interview.

Adel: on the first day of the war, we were prepared for the war by setting a room that was next to the stairs, next to a bathroom, so that the entire family could sleep there at the outset of the war of 2003. I and my sister brought our stuff, and toys and placed them in that room, and it was determined that this room would be the safest one. In other words, it would be the last room to be destroyed if a missile would hit our house.

Lujain: Are you saying that only you and Sarah (his sister) would sleep in that particular room since it is safer to remain there?

Adel: Well, actually all of the family stayed there whenever the shelling was too severe. Also, this room has few windows, so it was safer to remain there for the first month of the war. May uncle and his family (two daughters, two sons, and his wife) came and stayed with us in our home as well. My uncle use to live in your Neighborhood (Lujain’s Neighborhood). Indeed, my uncle had died (sighs). We were total of 13 person living in our house.

Lujain: Wow, that’s a lot. How many rooms were there in your home?

Adel: Man what are you talking about, we were all 13 individual in my small room whenever the shelling was severe. I think that was merely true for the first week, and then we started to play some games.

Lujain: Okay.

Adel: Because we thought if we were going to die then we will. There was no much to do about it. We were constantly hearing airplanes noises.

Lujain: Tell me about when the missile fell down at your house; was your uncle’s family still living with you?

Adel: Haaaaaaaaa هااااااا, no they weren’t with us, they returned back to their neighborhood after a while. (The Arabic word is a special Iraqi expression that refers to that fact that the person now got the idea of what the other person is asking or talking about).

Lujain: Uhmm, then tell me when did that happened? The Official war was no more than three weeks.

Adel: I know

Lujain: Then, when did the missile fell down?

Adel: in the middle of the war.

Lujain; Uhmm, (facial expression suggesting that I still don’t get it).

Adel: It was after the official occupation of Baghdad, but it was an Iraqi-missile.

Lujain: Okay

Adel: But there was still sort of minor resistance against the American Army. There was still some parts that were under the Iraqi-control.

Lujain: uhmm, okay. (Laughs), Oh Lord, why did they merely targeted it your house?!

Adel: exactly man, I guess it was a random mistake.

Lujain: An Iraq missile.

Adel: it was a spoiled missile. Only half of the missile fell down.

Lujain: Okay. Who were the agencies, or people that came to assist you?

Adel: Police and firefighters.

Lujain: but…( interrupted )

Adel: wait, let me say it in a chronological order. (Laughs). We were eating our lunch when the missile felt down. It fell down exactly on the room that was above us. If there was nothing to block it, it would have fell on us. If we weren’t to die from its heavy weight, we would probably die from its extremely high heat. My aunt were washing dishes, the whole family were in the kitchen eating our lunch. It was afternoon.

Lujain: who was there again beside you?

Adel: my family, aunt, and my grandmother.

Adel: the voice wasn’t that huge in comparison to what we heard during the war. It was utterly soft voice.

Lujain: That is so bizarre. I remember that even when missiles were distanced, their voices was still intimidating. May be it is because it was spoiled.
Adel: I don’t know. My father took me and my sister to the secure room, and sat us in his lap, and placed his arms around us.

Lujain: As a child: What were your feelings? Afraid, terrified, etc.

Adel: yep, of course I was terrified.

Lujain: Was your body shaking? Did you got sick because o you fear? (I was requesting more details).

Adel: oh okay, no, we were all afraid, but no to the point that I got sick. A child is hearing a horribly loud voices, what do you expect him to feel? (Adel was fumed). We used to close the doors and the windows to minimize these voices. The room would isolated the voice.

Lujain: Okay. Man, I remember our house was shacking as if an earthquake had occurred.

Adel: We would always sit in the room that has the fewer windows. My dad observed, “Oh the shelling have started so early today”, when it felt down. All of the sudden, my mom mentioned that our neighbors are looking at our houses, and they were pointing.

Lujain: (Laughs).[ Laughs that was intended to show the irony of what life can bring into people’s lives].

Adel: My dad went out, and the neighbors’ said there was a smoke evolving from the back yard of our house. We spilt the house before the war into two houses: once was sold, and the other one is where we lived.

Lujain: Okay

Adel: sighs, he went upstairs, and the merely view was pure smoke. He said, “everyone hurry up out.” We went out to the house that was exactly in front of our house. Indeed, after the war, a bickering had occurred between us and them.

Lujain: OKAY

Adel: Anyway: one of them kept repeating, did it explode yet or not? Laughing.

Lujain: what….??? Surprised from the that person reaction.

Adel: I swear we were all afraid, while this lady was wondering in such a rude way.

Lujain: Oh my God.

Adel: my father was the only one who stayed with the police and the firefighters to help getting the thing out. One of them opened the door and ordered everyone else to go down stairs.

Lujain: ohh (in a surprising tone), there was still some sort of services provided during that time.

Adel: Yep it was a missile. It would have destroyed the entire neighborhood, not only our house. The expert went out of the room and said, “It’s spoiled, it won’t explode.” But there was a liquid, if it started to pour down, then there would still a possibility of explosion.

Lujain: uhmmm

Adel: Look, it was already so hot, so it will operate fire and explode. The missile was exceptionally hot. (He emphasized that three times). The experts brought all kind of rags and gloves, and the missile was crawled down by more than ten man. It almost broke our stairs. You can certainly see the cracks that was left behind by the missile.

Lujain: Do you know how many tons was it?

Adel: No.

Lujain: wow, ten men carried it.

Adel: No, it was only by crawling it down. You might want to ask my day about the exact weigh and number of people who helped crawling it down Again, I assure you that it was no less than 10 man. All the edges were cracked. They delivered it to the truck, and carried it up in somehow and placed it in.

L.A: Now, tell me about the reasons why did your family decide to leave Iraq and when was that decision of going to the U.S. made?

A.A: my father decide to go to the U.S before he even married my mother.

L.A: why?

A.A: My dad wanted to get out of Iraq uhmm uhmm, honestly, he went to get out of the country to build his future more.

L.A: So, in his point of view, Iraq was inadequate place to live at.

A.A: it’s not about being inadequate, he want to go out because my uncle did so before him. My grandfather, may God place his mercy upon him, told him that he should first get married so his family will be content about his situation, and then he could travel afterward.

L.A: okay.

A.A: My dad told grandpa okay, he married my mom, and they were cousins anyway. During the time my father got married, my grandfather was incapacitated. He was totally paralyzed. He couldn’t even talk, so my father was the only one who took care of him during that time. My dad was the head of the house, so it was utterly wrong for him to travel.

L.A: okay

A.A: my grandfather died, and my grandmother and my aunty lived with us. When my aunt got married he thought about it again. My dad thought that he will go first and then he will send us some kind of invitation later. He didn’t thought about us coming.

L.A: When was that?

A.A: I think it was in 2004, when my uncle who resides in the U.S. found a job for him, and my dad was about to sign the contract.

L.A: why? Wasn’t there any jobs in Iraq?

A.A, yes there was some, but he wanted to become a citizen and then invite us easily.

L.A: why do you think obtaining American citizenship is important?

A.A: Because people would respect you if you have it. Just go to anywhere worldwide and they wouldn’t respect your Iraqi citizenship. If you travel with U.S. passport, people will put you above their heads [They would highly respect you].

L.A: don’t you think the reason folks around the world don’t respect us is the consequences evolved after the war?

A.A: of course, after the falling of the regime. But let me tell you, when I first started to have some sort of realization, it was in planted in our minds that we will go out someday. It was like a dream that my father convinced us of. He would always sent messages to an organization.

L.A: do you mean the IOM? Or the UN?

A.A: No, no no, I forgot it man. You just get it by luck.

L.A: Oh, I Think you’re talking about lottery.

A.A: There were many people who won it, but after a while our case was declined.

L.A: uhmmm.

A.A: My cousin Ali, he called and told us about it, which he was the first one who applied. He urged us to apply, and there were many steps in the process. After a while, we had an interview. Don’t ask me about the date though.

L.A: Was it in Iraq?

A.A.: No the interview was conducted in Jordan. So they sent us visas to go there, because it was hard for an Iraqi to get a visa to Jordan. We traveled there by car. It was extremely nice. We noticed that people had many papers. Our driver in surprise wondered where our papers are.

L.A: Do you visas?

A.A: Yeah I guess. We told the driver to calm down, we will pay you man, no worries. We entered easily unlike other folks. We did the interview and we were told to wait for the second interview, which takes about more than five months to be contacted again.

L.A: so you didn’t face any hardships. Everything was well prepared for you.

A.A: It was really nice, as if you were entering heaven.

L.A: do you mean the first time you saw Jordan was to you as though you entered paradise?

A.A: OF Course, nodding his head. From destroyed building to Malls and stuff.

L.A: can you explain more?

A.A: even when we entered anapartment it was really wow. Indeed, it was normal apartment. The apartment below us was where my cousin Ali lived.

L.A: okay.

A.A: In surprising turn, we had to wait for a long time after the first interview, and we were supposed to move to Jordan; however, we didn’t know and we wasn’t prepared. They didn’t tell us that we will be living in Jordan from now and on. Frankly, it was really tough on us.

L.A: you were shocked.

A.A. extremely shocked, because we can’t return again, the visas are provide only once. We started to think about how we are going to go back again but we went to Iraq again anyway. Anyway, the first day we weren’t tired when we first arrived, the whole route was pretty nice, mountains and totally new nature.

L.A: okay

A.A: okay, we returned back, and prepared ourselves to travel back to Jordan. I passed my classes by bribing my teachers (paying for useless private sessions). Indeed, the teacher came to me and told me you have to take a private lecture in order for me to pass the class, so did I and I passed. Again, it was really hard to prepare for our departure.

L.A: Are you saying because after the war, there was a lot of corruption in all aspects of life including education?

A.A: Yes, so corrupted, so corrupted, so corrupted (he repeated).

L.A: Did you learning anything in school, or was it just because you sort of have to go?

A.A: Well, although I didn’t understand anything in English, I was exempted from English ( a special Iraqi system, in which if you are really good at certain subject and you have a grade of an A, then you are exempted from taking the final exam). The exact reason behind getting the exemption is that I went with a group of students and paid a private teaching session. We would put the money inside the Notebook and gave it to her. Also, the lady who was my personal driver is my Islamic studies teacher, so I secured a good grade as well.

L.A: (Laughing)…

A.A: For Arabic, my friend would pay the teacher, get the exams and gave me some copies; however, my geography teacher demanded an extremely high rate for a private session. I just couldn’t afford it.

L.A: how much did she wanted?

A.A: yeah, indeed I paid about 200 dollars for my English teacher, but for geography she demanded it at least one session per month. So as a consequence, I didn’t pass the geography, but luckily I passed the class as whole just because I had a good average.

L.A: So tell me about when you first arrived to the U.S.

A.A: My uncle was waiting for us, it was warm-moments to reunite with my uncle, whom I never saw before. We went to their home and slept since we were extraordinary tired after a long trip. On the very next day, we woke up, and found ourselves in a forest.

L.A: wasn’t clear for you where are you at from the first day you arrived?

A.A: no it wasn’t clear. Even the second day we we’re still exhausted, but the third day we were so shocked. Living in a forest, no neighbors, and you can’t even walk, the nearest city is thirty minute a way. I mean we used to live in the center of the city of Baghdad. (it was a big transition).

L.A: Okay.

A.A: then we moved to Jordan, but it was always crowded with people. Now, we were living in exile.

L.A: weren’t there any stores or any kind of malls close to your uncle home?

A.A: No, you have to drive thirty minutes. There may be two neighbor, one of them has a shortage of electricity and used his generator to conduct electricity.

L.A: dude, that sounds like you were still in Iraq.

A.A: We went and applied for social security number. Also, I was ill during that time. When we went to the hospital for a medical check-up, I personally took at least five shots on each arm. It was really strong, that’s probably why I got sick. My uncle’s wife is actually a nurse; and was surprised and annoyed for the amount of shots we had to take. She herself wondered why would the give us all of that. It seemed like when they knew we were from Iraq, they had to do that because they were afraid that radiations or whatever kind of diseases we might have carried with us from there.

L.A: did you feel undignified because of the way they treated you in the hospital? Do you think the hospital stuff dislike the place you came from?

A.A: Yes, they did.

L.A: how was your respond to the new society?

A.A: I was so afraid.

L.A: from what?

A.A: everything. After one week, I begun to attend school right away.

L.A: How was your interactions in the school with students in particular?

A.A: Their reaction toward me was a new student who didn’t spoke any English. Frankly, my English was so bad back then. I barely spoke couple words. Most of the time, I didn’t understand a word from what they’re telling me. I speak few words, like five or six, such as Hi, how are you and these kind of stuff. But I tell you in my uncle house..

L.A: how many years have you studying English?

A.A: In Iraq one year, but all the years was private sessions.

L.A: uhmmm.

A.A: In Jordan also was a year, but it was British. It was all different. I started to understand them a bit, but I couldn’t do any homework without my uncle’s wife.

L.A: so she tutored you.

A.A: yes, but the problem was that I even couldn’t understand her either (Irish American who speaks English only). Man, when she used to say hi to me, I would only wave to her by my hand. Similarly with my mom, they kept saying hi to each other. We didn’t speak it. When I first saw my dad speaking, I was like wow; where did he learn it?! The first day in school, they called an Iraqi girl who was younger than I to assist me. But honestly she only showed me where my class is. I didn’t understand anything, they all left me by myself. Oh, Lord, What am I going to do? I was scared to death. In addition, my music teacher was extraordinarily nice to me, he welcomed me. Every morning I would go to see a band practicing. One day he posted a sign saying not to enter, so I didn’t. Next day I saw him and he told me that I’m an exception to the rule, and that I can actually enter. He knew that I like these stuff, and I’m not a troublemaker.

L.A: so he distinguished you from everyone else. Do you think he was sympathetic since you are Iraqi.

A.A: Yes I do think he was sympathetic because I’m Iraqi.

A.L: what did you feel about all that?

A.A: I respected him because…… (quite)

L.A: do you think you are lucky because your uncle was here given that he knows the country very well? (He came to the U.S. in about more than 40 years ago). You know some people come without having proper documentation and has no one to offer help for them.

A.A: Yeah it was really tough on us. Without him, we are destroyed……
After that, we wanted to move out, because we wanted to find a place where jobs are available, so my parents could work. We first thought about moving to Sacramento, but we finally came to Daly City where your uncle’s live. There was so Arabs who live there. We aren’t alone. It was nice.

L.A: so you told me you came nearby San Francisco to find a job right.

A.A: YES

L.A: okay, from what do you pay living expenses during you first three years?

A.A: we rented our home in Iraq. Also, some assistances the government provide us with. Currently, my mother is working, and my father is still looking for a job.

L.A: what do you mean by assistances? Is it cash aid and food stamps?

A.A: yes.

L.A: many Americans believe that those who take these services are parasites. What do you think about that?

A.A: it’s not a shame.

L.A: I said parasites. (Those two words parasites and shame has a similar pronunciation in Arabic).

A.A: if they take it over than five years, then they are.

L.A: okay:

A.A: But we are still new. We just came here. They were born here … (Interrupted by me).

L.A: are you saying you really need those aids?

A.A: definitely. Because…. Uhmmm (laugh) ……. Because we are starting from the zero. It’s as if you were just born, so wouldn’t you need aids? And you can’t even work. It’s hard to find a job easily.

 

 

 

Envisioning Home in the Land of the Invader

Envisioning Home in the Land of the Invader
by C.K. Ramsey, May 2014

Inspired by Voice of Witness–a San Francisco non-profit dedicated to the use of oral history to elucidate the personal accounts of human rights abuses suffered by undocumented immigrants living and working on the fringes of American society–this argumentative essay project endeavors to give voice to immigrants and their unique American experiences. Although our class project is inspired by Voice of Witness, we have chosen to expand our pool of witnesses to include not just those who have endured human rights abuses, but anyone with a contemporary immigration narrative they wish to share. Lujain Alobaide is a fellow classmate from Iraq, who has graciously agreed to share his story with me. Lujain is an intelligent young man with progressive views on a range of topics, most of which we touched on in our extensive interview. We discussed everything from his image of home and family in Iraq, his immigration experience, impression of America and its citizens, to politics and homosexuality, as well as religion and race.

Lujain’s romanticized image of life in Iraq is most likely rooted in the fact that he was a very young child when he lived there, unaware of the privileges his family may have enjoyed considering that they, and the country’s former leader–Saddam Hussein–are Sunnis and occupied the nexuses of power in the nation. I doubt that Shias and Kurds would share his view of Iraq during the era of Hussein. His view on LGBT rights is quite liberal–he supports equal rights for LGBT Americans–but his opinion of homosexuality is surely entrenched in Islamic philosophy that is emphatic in its connection to nurture rather than nature as the source of behavior. But it is his belief that discrimination based on skin color is non-existent among Muslims that was most surprising. He states emphatically that Islamic instruction has settled the issue of racism within the Muslim faith, but there is no escaping history’s impact on the present. All the major religions have histories of racism, and those histories of race and religion contribute to our current attitudes toward people of color, whether you are Christian or Muslim, Black or White. With these topics aside, I have chosen for the purpose of this essay to focus on how the experiences of his young life have changed his concept of home and family, concluding that his journey from Iraq to America has expanded said concept from one vested in multi-generational unity and security in his former homeland, to one that includes a new reality of home and family in his new homeland, while he struggles to extricate himself from the grips of familial discord.

Born in Iraq during the reign of Saddam Hussein, before the American invasion in 2003, Lujain enjoyed a middle-class life of comfort and security with his mother and two brothers, in a house owned by his grandfather, along with two uncles, an aunt, and their children. His parents were divorced, and his father lived in the United Arab Emirates, where he worked as a civil engineer. Forced to flee Iraq to escape escalating sectarian and ethnic violence unleashed by the American invasion of 2003, he and his family found themselves living in the United Arab Emirates with the man he felt abandoned them. Lujain would be pressed to create a new definition of home in a new land, with a father he didn’t know.

A huge smile stretches across his face as the warmth of happy memories of close family ties and a carefree life flood the room when Lujain talks about growing up in Iraq. Although his parents are divorced and he has very little contact with his father, he still looks back on this time with fondness: “I mean this time you could say that even though I don’t really remember what really happens, but it definitely, probably was the best time of my life…I know we had like a really big happy family…” He lived in a large multi-generational home built by his grandfather, with his mother, two brothers, and a host of cousins, aunts, and uncles that filled the space left vacant by his father’s absence. He speaks fondly about school, and a life without “concerns,” although his memory may be impacted by his age at the time. Tisha Ornstein and Lixia Yang, Professor and Associate Professor, respectively, of Psychology at Ryerson University, suggest in their article “The Effect of Emotion-Focused Orientation at Retrieval on Emotional Memory in Young and Older Adults,” that “…the emotion-focused orientation instruction at free recall strengthened the emotional enhancement effect, particularly the positivity bias, in young adults,” meaning that, if we hear positive things about a particular time or place–even if we were too young to truly remember events ourselves–we will create positive associations with that time or place. I believe the necessity of positive memories is paramount to Lujain’s positive associations with national identity and concepts of home and family.

To focus on what he remembers as positive from his childhood assists him in contending with the painful absence of his father, a subject that surfaces immediately in our discussion: h states, “…even though there was a part of me, you know—I don’t have a dad, I don’t talk to him, don’t speak to him—he almost like from my point of view, he almost never cared,” suggesting to me that, even though this may have been a happy time in his life, the absence of his father impacts his memories of this time perhaps more than he realizes. He has to remember this time as happy so as not to deal with the vacuum his father’s absence created. According to Dennis Balcom in his article “Absent Fathers: Effects on Abandoned Sons,” appearing in The Journal of Men’s Studies, “Paradoxically, abandoned sons often have intense feelings related to their fathers…The son’s reaction leads him to reject the importance of his father,” which explains the dismissive tone in Lujain’s voice when talking about his dad. “Until the son acknowledges his unfulfilled needs and longing for his father, he can remain in turmoil about himself…” While I didn’t notice any indication of inner turmoil, this could be due to the role his uncles played in his life. Assuming the place left vacant by his father—“they are like my real fathers, more than my own”—their presence was no doubt valuable in his nurturing, and in the creation of a strong sense of self. Reminiscing about the place where family unity and a life without violence and ethnic unrest still existed inadvertently exposed a wound left untreated by the absence of a parent, an absence that, when juxtaposed against the presence of his uncles, feeds his concept of family in Iraq.

The smile is gone; the warm happy memories have turned into cold recriminations against the liberators who promised freedom, but instead deprived him of the home and family he had come to cherish and rely on. Life in Iraq after the American invasion had descended into violence and chaos: “It was really bad…one of the things that I remember…there was a, you know, they bombed a car…they put a bomb there, and it exploded…a lot of people get killed, and it was really nearby my house…it was really scary…” According to Lujain, the American invasion unleashed sectarian violence and threats of invasion from Iran, Iraq’s closest and most feared neighbor, which Saddam Hussein, through fear and intimidation, managed to keep at bay, a point confirmed by Savera Someshwar, Managing Editor of rediff.com, in her article “Iraqi society has been extremely polarized.” “What started as a US-led coalition invasion to topple Saddam Hussein turned into one of the most brutal sectarian conflicts the modern world has seen…a terrible communal bloodbath that is still continuing,” not to liberate and free the people from the clutches of a dictator, but instead to gain control of the country’s vast oil reserves, “more like colonialism stuff,” he said. He also believes, like many Iraqis, that it was the responsibility of the Iraqi people to depose Saddam Hussein and liberate their own country. He railed against the devastation done to his country by the so-called liberators: “…you just made things worse for me, the United States intervention made my life just miserable. What kind of freedom is that, freedom by killing people, by bombing them?” Home for Lujain and his fellow Iraqis had become a minefield of terror and violence, ripping apart families, destabilizing the security and economy of the nation, pitting religious factions against one another, and destroying the home of his memories, thanks to the benevolence of their liberators, the U.S. government.

Life became so unbearable in Iraq that the family fled and was forced to turn to the father that had abandoned them for assistance. “He called my dad and talked to him, and my dad finally have some emotion I guess, and he said, ‘OK I’m going to come to Jordan and I want to see you guys.’” Lujain was visibly upset by the memory of having to ask the man he felt rejected him for help. If there was anyone else the family could have contacted for help, his face told me, they would have. So, against his better judgment, he and his family went to Jordan, and eventually moved to the United Arab Emirates with a man he didn’t even recognize when he saw him on the street: “I knew who he was only because when I was sitting there I heard like his name, they were shouting his name, so I was like OK that’s him.” It had been years since the last time he’d seen his father; he was still a very young child – four or five years old – when his parents divorced and was now twelve years old, having not seen his father in all that time. “Preparing the abandoned son to engage the absent father begins with clarifying the son’s unspoken wishes. What did he always want to say…ask…share with his father?” (Balcom 6). There wasn’t time for any of this for Lujain or the family, and the reunion turned out to be disaster. “It’s kind of like they really devastating each other’s lives, their really making their lives miserable, and my life…” A year into the reunion, his parents’ relationship began to go downhill, and, according to Lujain, it was his father’s inability to come to terms with abandoning his family, that most likely lead to his parents’ divorce in the first place. Whichever is the case, life in the United Arab Emirates was fraught with contention and Lujain found himself ensconced within the dynamics of a family that were as chaotic as the nation he was forced to flee. Could he create home under these conditions?

After an antagonistic five years together, the Alobaide family decided to immigrate to America, a decision precipitated by the financial crisis of 2008, which limited employment opportunities for the father. The immigration process proved humiliating for Lujain: “…it’s kind of funny and insulting at the same time. She would like as you a question like; when you go to the United States, would you form a terrorist group and bomb people?” With Saddam Hussein deposed, Shia and Kurdish communities that had suffered violent human rights abuses at the hands of Hussein’s Ba’athist government targeted Sunnis, whom they associated with Saddam. But Lujain points out that not all Sunnis liked or supported Saddam, nor was he a man motivated by faith: “Saddam was pretty much a secular guy, he never cared about Islam or any religion, if he had done so he wouldn’t have been the dictator he had became.” Unfortunately, the opportunity to discover that they shared a universal distaste for their former leader was lost, and differences were inflamed by an occupying nation’s desire to colonize the region and exploit its natural resources. The nation’s oil reserves were the targets of daily attacks by Iranian-sponsored terrorist groups, whose sole purpose was to further destabilize the country and gain control of the nation’s economy, in competition with the occupying force. Law and order were non-existent; looting and kidnapping were on the rise, and the country responsible for unleashing this reign of terror on their homeland was now asking them if they would be a threat to this nation. In an interview with John Malkin of Voices For Creative Nonviolence, Iraqi national Walid Waleed talked about what he and his fellow Iraqis have experienced since the invasion in 2003: “On 9th March 2003 my cousin was injured…an American soldier shot her…” Waleed’s cousin was wearing an Arabic dishdasha–a long sleeved collarless garment–which was black, the same color Saddam Hussein’s fighters wore. The soldier couldn’t tell the difference because, according to Waleed, he “…he didn’t have the knowledge to see the fashion of women in an Arabic country.” Throughout the interview, Waleed goes on to describe the difficulty of living without the everyday conveniences most westerners take for granted: “security, electricity, fuel (gasoline, kerosene, cooking gas), jobs, education, medical care, and to get back our houses, which had been looted by Almahdy army, the correct spelling is al-Mahdi. Although Lujain and I had a good laugh about the ridiculous question asked by the immigration interviewer, it was obvious to us both that there was nothing funny about it considering what his country was enduring. The family was approved to immigrate to America, and Lujain would once again have to expand his concept of home and family to include a new homeland, and a new set of obstacles his family would face there.

A new beginning in America would include a new perception of the American people. “I had a lot of hatred towards Americans…I was like, those people who killed my people.” Understandably, Lujain’s view of American was negative considering what the American invasion did to his country. One of his relatives was jailed in Abu Ghraib prison, and witnessed many of the abuses suffered at the hands of American military personnel: “…they would be creative in the ways they tortured people,” he states. His bitterness rose to the surface when discussing the perceptions he believes Americans have of his people “terrorist,” “ignorant,” and “uneducated.” Susan Akram, writing for the Arab Studies Quarterly, suggests that “The demonization of Arabs and Muslims in America began well before the terrible tragedy of September 11, 2001,” and has been used to justify America’s neo-colonialist Middle East foreign policy, the vilification of Palestinians to justify support of the Israeli governments theft of Palestinian homeland, and US military interest in securing the natural resources–oil–of Arab countries to be exact. Moving to America has changed Lujain’s opinion of the American people. He no longer believes that all Americans hold negative stereotypes about Iraqis and want to hurt them: “…it’s not like those people really want to kill you, or just hate you for no reason…you can have a discussion with them.” He says he now understands that people often rely on stereotypes rather than knowledge of different cultures before forming opinions about particular groups. His concept of home and family has expanded to include America and her people.

Like most Americans, Lujain’s view of his new government and its political system is still in the love-hate stage. “We…definitely…have democracy, at least if you compare it to…other countries, but I think there is the United States foreign policy that is the problem.” He believes the American people don’t pay enough attention to what is going on in other countries, and don’t always consider the impact our policies have on people around the world. He may be partially correct—most Americans don’t know much about our nation’s foreign policy—but it’s a mistake on his part to believe that people from other countries know any more about their nation’s foreign policy. I’ve often found that immigrants from other countries that I have spoken with are misinformed about foreign policy decisions made by this nation and theirs. But our foreign policy isn’t the only thing he has an issue with; he doesn’t understand why the richest, most powerful nation in the world would have such a dismal educational system or homelessness: “…and the…shock that I got is how does a country like the United States, that do not have a universal health care…” He pointed out that even in Iraq everyone had access to health care, guaranteed free education from elementary school to college, and there was no such thing as homelessness, until after the American invasion. It would have been great if I could have defended America on these issues, but I couldn’t. Lujain was carving out a home for himself in a country that afforded him the ability to speak his mind on any subject, rather than the fear of doing so in his former homeland.

While he has grown to accept and embrace his new homeland–flaws and all–his nuclear family is still at odds with one another. When I suggested that the transition to this country had been tough on his family, he agreed: “Oh, definitely, and what make it difficult in my case is my parents, they hate each other.” He claims that both his parents want to play the “victim role,” most likely exacerbated by the fact that his father isn’t working: “…when you come from a foreign country they don’t recognize your bachelor degree, unless you go through some kind of process,” a man, who can’t support his family, and doesn’t always feel like a man. His brother is struggling to find his niche; he’s worked in maintenance, in a hotel, driven a taxi. “Now he’s trying to find a security position, he keeps changing. He has a lot of problems, and he’s actually created a lot of problems for the family as well.” We didn’t discuss his brother much, but perhaps he isn’t having as easy a time adjusting to life in America as Lujain. It would be interesting to hear his point of view on America, and how he feels about living here. What is clear is the almost non-existent relationship between Lujain and his father. They barely speak to one another except for the occasional “hi and sometimes goodnight.” Consequently, Lujain spends most of his time, as much as he can, away from home. “The only reason I would go home is if I just want a place to sleep,” he stated. “Marital conflict can cause adjustment issues, complicate conflict resolution styles and alter emotional security,” according to Melody Causewell, of livestrong.com. Life in America has provided Lujain with opportunities he did not have in Iraq, opened his mind to different people and cultures, and has impacted his concept of home both positively and negatively.

Lujain’s concept of home has expanded from one vested in multi-generational unity and security in his former homeland, to include the reality of a new life in America with all the freedom and privileges citizenship affords him, while caught within parental discord. Unlike Iraq, America offers Lujain options that can allow him to change his family dynamic. He can encourage his parents, and his entire family to get counseling, or as a last result, he can convince his mother to divorce his father. Whichever decision they make, they are not alone, many American families experience conflict as a result of infidelity, economic instability, battles over how to raise the children, or for many other reasons. Fortunately for Lujain, his family can come through these difficult times and survive. He can never relive his memories of family life in Iraq, but he and his family can conceive and create a new American family to rival those memories.

Works Cited

“Lujain Alobaide.” Personal interview. 21 Mar. 2014.

Akram, Susan M. “The Aftermath of September 11, 2001: The Targeting of Arabs and

Muslims in America.” Arab Studies Quarterly 24.2/3 (2002): 1-61. Ethnic NewsWatch. Web. 16 May 2014. <http://search.proquest.com/docview/220916?&gt;.

Balcom, Dennis A. “Absent Fathers: Effects on Abandoned Sons.” The Journal of Men’s Studies 6.N3 (1998): 1-25. Gale. Web. 25 Apr. 2014. <http://gale.com/marinacounselingcenter/&gt;.

Causewell, Melody. “The Psychological Effects of Marital Conflicts on Adolescents.” LIVESTRONG.COM. LIVESTRONG.COM, 18 June 2013. Web. 14 May 2014.

Malkin, John. “Life in Iraq: An Interview – February 2008.” Voices for Creative Nonviolence. Voices for Creative Nonviolence, Feb. 2008. Web. 16 May 2014.

Someshwar, Savera R. “Iraqi Society Has Been Extremely Polarized.” India Abroad 38.25 (2008): 1-2. ProQuest. Web. 27 Apr. 2014. <http://search.proquest.com/docview/362769734?&gt;.

Ornstein, Tisha J., and Lixia Yang. “The Effect of Emotion-Focused Orientation at Retrieval on Emotional Memory in Young and Older Adults.” EBSCO. Apr. 2011. Web. 20 May 2014.

Lujain’s Transcript

C.K. Ramsey: We know you were born in Iraq, What was your life like there?

Lujain Alobaide: First I can tell you my life before and after maybe the war if you would be interested in that.

CR: Which war, do you mean the American invasion?

LA: In 2003, yea so basically even before the war, I mean technically my parents were technically divorced. I was living with my aunt, my uncle I have two uncles, my aunt, and my grandpa they all have like their kids and my family. I have like two other brothers and my mom, we were all living in the same house it was a really big house. Like I don’t know eight rooms or something like eight bedrooms, yea it was really big, it was my grandfather’s house because, as I told you my parents were technically divorced, and my father was in the United Arab of Emirates. During that time I think they were divorced in somewhere in 1998, and I was really young I was somewhere like four years old. I mean this time you could say that even though I don’t really remember what really happens, but it definitely probably was the best time of my like because you know I was a kid, and you know I know we had like a really big happy family you could say. Like you know with my uncles aunts and stuff I was technically really happy you know, go to school there were no concerns and stuff even though there was a part of me you know, I don’t have a dad I don’t talk to him, don’t speak to him, he almost like from my point of view, he almost never cared because he just came, like the second time I ever saw him after they divorced was after seven years, no it was actually even more, yea cause the second time I saw him was in 2006 and it was not in Iraq anyway, we’ll back, we’ll come back to that I guess, so he after they like, after they divorced they technically came, I mean he technically came once before he traveled you know, he just came and bring some candies, I remember and then after that I never seen him. He maybe he, I mean my brother, my oldest brother, he sometime call him like maybe and we talk like once in each six months over the phone and less than one minute so there is like a really big gap that still affects us until today

CR: Yea growing up without a dad is tough. So you say your brother talks to him every six months?

LA: Yea, I also like, I like probably when I grow up more when I was maybe 11 or 12 actually. I probably talk to him like really maybe 1 minute or so.

CR: What did your father do for a living?

LA: He’s civil engineer.

CR: Did your mom work?

LA: My mom during that time no.

CR: Your family in Iraq, you say you had a big house so would you say you lived a middle-class lifestyle?

LA: Uh you could say that, because it was actually my grandfather who built it, and my aunt, I mean you can see we were definitely dependent on my uncles, they are more like they are like they are really my fathers, they are like my real fathers more than my own you can say even though I living with my actual dad right now, which we can talk about later its really complicated.

CR: Do families in Iraq tend to live together in multi-generational households?

LA: They do that as long as you know it’s a big house and there’s no problems, you know sometimes when the kids they got married they go out they buy new house, but usually if you are talking about in terms of middle-class or working-class I mean like maybe it’s just my point of view, like maybe especially like before, maybe 90 percent of the people they had their own house, it was really to see a person who is renting or is homeless there is no such a thing.

CR: No such thing as homelessness?

LA: No not before the war that’s for sure.

CR: What was the environment like was it urban like San Francisco, or rural?

LA: It was definitely mixed but in terms of my life we lived in the capital, which was more like, you can’t really say like San Francisco, San Francisco is really much more modern than Bagdad. During that time I lived near by the airport which was good before the war, but during the war and after, it was really big problem because there was almost the major battles happened there, it was kind of just normal place there were no mall or fancy buildings no.

CR: What about school, were they like American schools or were they traditional religious schools?

LA: I wouldn’t say really religious, but the education system there is fundamentally different than here, that is definitely for sure, ah the school before the war it was good but it was kind of like, they really glorify the president of the country you know, that kind of dictatorship like in every page of the book like when you open the book there is a page that has the picture of Saddam Hussein who was the president of Iraq at the time, as you probably know, and perhaps some excerpts of things that he said some quotes and stuff.

CR: What did you think of Saddam Hussein?

LA: Well that’s a good question, but you really have to know that as a person, I mean he’s definitely a dictatorship you know there’s no argument about that, but if you compare the country in his era and afterwards it would definitely, even the people who hate him they would definitely tell you that when we were in his era there was life much better than now, at least we have some kind of security and stability, now we could anything could happen a bomb or something could kill a lot of people now there is a lot of blood.

CR: Although you may not have liked him, you felt safer when he was in power and there was a better standard of living?

LA: Definitely.

CR: Are you a Sunni, or?

LA: I am a Sunni.

CR: What are the different factions?

LA: Well there is the Sunni and there is the Shia and there is the Curds but the Curds are kind of centered in the north area.

CR: What’s the difference?

LA: Well its basically they’re all Muslims the Sunni and the Shia, it’s really an old you know a kind of stupid argument I would call it because there’s no actual arguments there’s just this has been created you know for when you want to have make a civil war or something they will play on this, the difference between them. When the prophet Mohammed, of the Muslims, when he died there has to be like a successor for him, and during that time there were like four men they called the righteous successors, ah there was their names are Abu Bakr, Umar ibn al-Khattab, Ali ibu Abi Talib, they came after the prophet they succeeded him. The Shia believe that his son-in-law, Ali should be the first successor after him because they believe that the Caliph, you know the one that succeeded the prophet should be from the household of the prophet not anyone else, while the Sunni’s believe that the one who should succeed the prophet could be anyone but he had to meet the certain eligibilities, he doesn’t have to be within the household of the prophet, but again this really did not came into place until maybe 500 hundred or more years after the prophet had died so it’s kind of like even ridiculous how things are being now.

CR: So it’s kind of like Christianity in that when Jesus died we got Jews, Catholics, Baptist, and whatever, with everyone saying we’re the real ones, and someone else saying, no we’re the real ones, that kind of thing?

LA: Yea, exactly.

CR: Why did you come to America?

LA: Well we came to it’s kind of like we’re really jumping around cause I mean first of all before we came to America I have to tell you about it.

CR: OK, tell me.

LA: Well after the war you know it was really difficult because there was all kind of civil war all kind of you know people get killed there was a lot incidents that happen to me and my family and to my uncles.

CR: Are these things the Americans did, or because of the American invasion?

LA: It’s definitely because of the American invasion because when they invade the country there was no kind of sovereignty, there was not like one person, there was no specific group that is taking control. There was like Iran our neighbor, you know the country Iran, they was like controlling some areas, there was like Americans, there was like all kind of those players. It was really bad, I mean after 2006 there was a civil war which we had never had before as long as I remember, the first time I knew what Sunni and Shia mean was in 2006 when that happened, ah there was a lot of incidents. One of the things that I remember, we were building a new room in my grandfather’s house and there was a you know they bombed a car, you know they put a lot of bombs there and it exploded somehow, and I don’t know how they remote control maybe, somehow a lot of people get killed and it was really nearby my house, and so I was walking like, I was on a ladder and I was just climbing up and that happens. I almost fell down, it was really scary, and then they did some nasty things. One of the nasty things they did at that time, and people when you see people getting killed and stuff you do, you know what do you do, you call the ambulance and you get help and stuff, so people would be like really crowded right so they do really nasty thing they would put another bomb another car and they would also bomb it so when people was like you know get really packed and crowded they would bomb the second one.

CR: How did the Iraqi people view the Americans, did they see us as people coming to help, or did they see it as an invasion, people there to do more harm than good?

LA: Well you’re talking about just my opinion or the Iraqi people?

CR: Either one, your opinion or things you may have heard about how people felt about the Americans.

LA: Well I would say that the majority of the people know that the United States wanted to invade Iraq, not to free us definitely it was more like maybe oil purpose you know more like colonialism stuff you know, it was not about freeing people. I could really give you a rational answer for that, if you compare the status of the country before and after the invasion, you compare that and you will know definitely that the, I would call it the occupation or the invasion, it was not to free people definitely and a lot of people thought that too. On the other hand they also wanted to get rid of Saddam Hussein, so there was this and that. I think like there should have been a kind of like revolution to make that guy step down without you know a phony intervention.

CR: You felt it was the responsibility of the Iraqi people to get him out and we should have just minded our business?

LA: Yea definitely, definitely, I mean definitely because I mean you just made things worse for me, the United States intervention made my life just miserable. I was happy, I was just living there and everything was, I hadn’t had any concerns before even though I had problems with my dad that wasn’t a big problem, it was OK you know, I’m not going to be homeless, I’m going to have food to eat you know, education was free even in the university it was all free I mean you just came in and you try to free me. What kind of freedom is that, freedom by killing people, by bombing them?

CR: When you came to America and you heard how people in this country talked about the invasion did you think we just didn’t get it, did you think the we didn’t know the truth that maybe our government didn’t tell us the truth about the reasons we went over there, or that we just didn’t care?

LA: Well to be honest, I felt like some people are really kind of really ignorant about the issue. Cause some people, they don’t even know where Iraq is located, their like oh really your from Iraq, and some others they really sympathized and apologized, and you know it was really nice you know, to see that at least some people they have sympathy, but in my opinion it was like a lot of people, as Americans they are really more concerned about, you know, their lives, their matters. Which is really understandable because they just want to make a living, and they don’t really have a lot of time to watch the news, which is already corrupted, they just want to get some food, get their child a good education. I didn’t feel like people had time to seek this kind of knowledge about wars and stuff, you have no idea. Remember the reason why they invaded, the actual reason they announced in the media. They say that Iraq had a massive amount of weapons of mass destruction, yea and it was never found, and they say Iraq was linked to al Qaeda, which they totally hate each other. I mean if you really think about it, how many people died in 9/11? Three thousand five thousand, ok, do you have any idea how many Iraqis or Pakistanis died in those wars? No let’s just talk about Iraq, maybe it’s like at least two-hundred thousand, that’s just those who died, and millions have been flown out of the country like refugee, and I just come here too as a refugee status.

CR: After experiencing that in Iraq, what was I like to come to this country, the country that invaded your country, and turned your life upside down?

LA: Well it’s a kind a like you don’t really have another choice, well if you stayed in Iraq you most likely will be killed there or something. Because my uncles, they went out of Iraq because they had someone threaten them, they left an envelope and they put one bullet in it, and they said that if you don’t pay us this amount of money we are going to kill you, or kidnap you know. They could do a lot of stuff, and there was a lot of thing actually happening during that time, so they are not lying to you, they would really do that. That’s why my uncles went, but the reason why I went, well before I came here I went to the United Arab Emirates, and how did that happen was, basically my older brother, he wanted to go out of Iraq because when he grow up as a teenager he didn’t feel comfortable in my grandfather’s house, because you know there, it’s kind of like my uncles kids, he have like two daughters, and it’s like another guy who’s also a teenager, and it’s not likable, I don’t know I thinks that’s the reason he wanted to go. In a teenage.

CR: Is this a custom thing, where men of a certain age, shouldn’t be around girls of a certain age?

LA: I think so, yea. I mean, I think my uncle didn’t like my brother being there at that time. I think so. I mean that’s what I get from what happened, like he never told him, you need to go, no never, and they were actually planning to give us a separate apartment, that was the plan, and then it changed. He called my dad, and talked to him, and my dad finally have, some emotion I guess, and he said ok I’m going to come to Jordan and I want to see you guys. And then we went there, we went there with my auntie, like my brothers sister, which I almost never knew before, and we went on a trip, by car, we drove to Jordon, and here’s the funny thing, we went to a place and we stayed with my father’s sister. Before he came my brother was going to the mall, and my brother was walking in that neighborhood, and then my father came, and my father, he shout at him and say hey, I don’t remember what he said I’m not sure, but like my brother didn’t recognize him, he was like who’s this guy, and he just went on.

CR: You hadn’t seen him in so long. Did you know who he was?

LA: I knew who he was only because when I was sitting there I heard like his name, they were shouting his name, so I was like ok that’s him.

CR: It must have been tough growing up without a dad, huh?

LA: Yea definitely, but it was even tougher to live with him, I would say, because what is happening now, technically it’s not, well here’s the thing, when he comes and then after that my uncle’s family they all fled and they just went out of Iraq, and they all came to live in Jordan, my father got reunited with my mom, which in my point of view, that should never, ever had happened you know. If I were like maybe at this age, or two years, or maybe one years ago, I would never, I would never, allow this to happen. It’s kind of like they really devastating each other’s lives, their really making their lives miserable, and my life, you know. We went to the United Arab Emirates with him and my mom, we stayed there for like five years before we came to the United States, well the reason why we left the United Arab Emirates is because after the financial crisis of 2008, there was a big change in the construction business, so you know the projects were really slowing down, and there was like a lot of financial problems in his job, so my uncle during that time, he decided he would apply to an organization called the international organization for immigration, so he applied, and he helped us and somehow, and we applied through him, I guess, and we had our first interview. We flew from the United Arab Emirates to Jordan, we had like several interviews, they like ask you about your life, they asked you if you give them the permission to, you know, look for every single detail about your life, and we give them that permission, you know, just by security purposes I guess, and there a funny thing that, during one of the interviews, they were like, there were three interviews, the first two you meet with like Jordanian’s, they are like, they are associated with the organization, but the third one, you have to like meet with the American representative or something, and this (he laughs), is really funny. She would ask, it’s kind of funny and insulting at the same time, she would like ask you a question, like when you go to the United States, would you form a terrorist group and bomb people? (I laugh) I’m serious, she would really ask you that, and you know, it was kind of ridiculous.

CR: Like if someone were going to do, you would really tell them, right?

LA: You know, I mean are you serious? Why are you even asking such a question?

CR: That’s crazy. So, when you first arrived in America, where did you go?

LA: Well, when I first arrived, my uncle came before us, so he set up an apartment, and we went to Daly City. We lived there like for one year almost, and then we went to Pacifica, which is where I reside now. There’s a lot of things going on also, like my parent’s, when we came here, we’ve been here like almost three years, or two, and maybe seven or eight months, out of this time, say maybe two or three months, they have not been talking to each other, they are almost like divorced, but we live in the same place, and they just communicate through me and my brother, which I find is really despicable, they just make our life, you know difficult.

CR: You’ve only been in America like eight months?

LA: No, like two years and eight months.

CR: Oh, two years and eight months. Your English is really great, I’m sure that’s something that people say all the time right? But it is. I know people born and raised here, who can’t speak English.

CR: When I first came, I didn’t really like speak any English, the only words I really knew was like, hi, how are you, good afternoon, you know, that’s it, but I went to high school in Daly City, Westmore, and I really study my ass, and I really like, I really wanted to learn, it was definitely a big shock, it kinda like you were in Mars, and you came to the Earth, like everything was different.

CR: Do you think the schools are better here, or better in Iraq?

LA: No, it’s better definitely here.

CR: Americans complain about the school system here.

LA: Well comparatively.

CR: Do you think we’re spoiled?

LA: Spoiled?

CR: Do you think we’re spoiled?

LA: What do you mean, in what sense?

CR: Do you think we don’t appreciate the educational system we have here?

LA: Well no, I don’t think you guys are spoiled, because there is a lot of bad things, I mean there is bad things, but on the other hand there is also some advantages, maybe like Americans complain, about maybe that, I don’t know. What do you guys complain about?

CR: Everything, Americans complain about everything, we’re a spoiled people, we’re used to having a lot?

LA: I think the problem is that, like with the American system it’s more kind of private, there is a lot of money issues going on, I think that as a county the United States should like, even at the University level, that should be free, you’re like almost the greatest nation on earth right now, so how come you have people who are homeless, or you have people who don’t have access to education, well compared to the poor underdeveloped, I don’t know, like the third world countries like mine.

CR: Yea, that’s the debate that some people are having right now. I think America should have free education for everyone, but I think there are reasons why we don’t. I mean America has a long history of colonialism and racism and discrimination on a lot of different levels, and just think that we simply don’t want to educate all of our people.

LA: I see, which is I think luckily in my country, I would say that actually, as far as like racial, or skin color is concerned, there was like almost no such a thing, like because I think Islam has like banished, or what is the word to say, like abolished that idea of racial…

CR: Do mean Saddam?

LA: No, I’m saying about Islam, yea the prophet like, when you know like one hundred four thousand years ago, like one his famous saying is that there is no difference between you know, like red, black, white, whatever color, or ethnicity that person has, it’s only about how righteous, how spiritual, or good you are to people.

CR: Do you have black people in Iraq?

LA: There is in the southern Iraq, there’s not a lot you know but it’s actually like this, in the southern area of Iraq, most of the people are darker skin, but in Basra, that province that I was talking to you about, they are very dark skinned, but like who cares. We didn’t have such a, you know, I’ve never thought about a difference between a person as a color of skin, it doesn’t mean anything to me.

CR: Do you have an American dream?

LA: Well definitely, I mean I have a big hopes about America, you know just like what we’re reading right now, everyone thinks that America, this the country of opportunities, a county where you can make money, a country of prosperity, you know all this stuff.

CR: Do you have a particular dream for yourself? Like, how old are you now?

LA: 20.

CR: 20? You’re a baby. (We both laugh), do you think, in thirty years, this is what I would like to be, this how I would like to be living?

LA: Well, I mean my dream is really like to have a really stable job, not like any job, I’m really interested in innovation and those kinds of things. I really wish that someday I could make my own discovery or something.

CR: So are you talking high tech innovation, or scientific innovation?

LA: Probably a little more with scientific innovation, rather than high tech innovations.

CR: You want to find a cure for cancer? (We laugh)

LA: Well not in biological stuff, I’m more like into physics maybe.

CR: Now that you’ve been here a while, do you still feel the same way about America, as when you first arrived?

LA: No definitely, when I was there (Iraq), I had a lot of hatred towards Americans because I was like those people, even though I came, I was like those people who killed my people, killed distant relatives, one of my relatives was like jailed in, I’m sure you heard about that Abu Ghraib scandal, and one of them was there, and he saw all kinds of torture, and they would do things you know, they would be creative in the ways how they tortured people, and America called my people terrorist, ignorant, uneducated, you know all those kind of stereotypes, so definitely, I didn’t like Americans before, but when I came here, I understand what really Americans mean. When you are there you understand that Americans are white, that’s really the perception over there, but when I came here, especially in California, no it’s not like that at all, you got all those kinds of people, from different backgrounds, there have different cultures, and they don’t even know where Iraq is, or they don’t really, they’re just trying to live their lives. They’re really nice people you know, it’s not like those people really want to kill you, or just hate you for no reason and, if you talk to them some people will understand, you can have a discussion with them, it’s not like, I think in terms of like western and eastern culture there’s definitely stereotypes going on, they kind of like flash back on each other, like Arabs would say Americas are corrupted, they see all the girls are naked, and then that’s kind of bullshit, and other’s would say your ignorant and you don’t respect your women, you know.

CR: Yea, there are misconceptions on both sides. It reminds me of this story of a group of American women I saw on a T.V. show somewhere, who thought they were supporting Arab women, complaining that Arab women shouldn’t be forced to wear the burka’s, and how Arab societies were oppressive toward women. Then a couple of Arab women in the audience stood up and asked what the women were talking about. We’re not forced to wear burka’s, it’s a part of our religion, and it’s what we choose to do. The point being, we don’t know each other, we only have stereotypes to rely on.

LA: Well since you brought that in, as you know, I’m a Muslim, but my mom, she doesn’t wear a hijab, but as a Muslim, I really wish that someday she will be convinced, and she will wear it, because I mean the idea behind that is really not that, as a Muslim we believe that women should be dressed modestly, and therefore should be she should be treated for her own personality and not for like her looks.

CR: But do you believe that it’s her choice?

LA: Definitely, I mean who knows, at the end God will judge her, it doesn’t mean, I would not say that this is good woman because she wearing modestly, and she’s half naked she’s a bad person, no definitely.

CR: Not even a stripper? (we laugh)

LA: Even a stripper you know, she might have some kind of experience in her life that forced her to be a stripper, you know maybe she lived in poverty, which is really, and that’s the peoples problem, I mean like, we are too judging on people without understanding their situation, or what caused them to do that.

CR: What do you think about our government?

LA: The American government?

CR: Yea, our government? It’s your government now also.

LA: Well, like in terms of parties you mean?

CR: It doesn’t have to be about the political parties, I think they’re both the same anyway?

LA: We have definitely like, we have democracy, at least if you compare it to like other countries, but I think there is the United States foreign policy that is the problem, and there is a lot of problems inside, like you got the education system problems, I mean we just mentioned that some people don’t have access to education, you have homeless people, and the really shock that I got is how does a country like the United States, that do not have a universal health care, I mean seriously, if someone doesn’t have money, he can just die or something because he doesn’t have money to pay.

CR: So were you surprised at the push-back against Obama-Care?

LA: Well technically, this push is really, there is a people, they are only concerned about money, they don’t care about people, they know they have enough money to pay insurance, so they don’t care about other people, if they will have the opportunity to purchase insurance or not, that’s the kind of thing I don’t like about Republicans in general, I mean I shouldn’t say Republicans, all of them no, but those ideas of, I think they are really being selfish, in terms of, they have money so they really don’t care about people, they are just pro-business, they just want to make a profit out of people agony, they take worker’s rights, there is a lot of things, the minimum wage, and all these kinds of issues.

CR: Do you like the idea that in America, if you don’t agree with a position, you can speak-out about it?

LA: I mean that’s definitely a really good thing, I mean if you were in Iraq in Saddam Hussein era, if you talk or said the wrong things about him they would definitely get you.

CR: Would they take you for a ride?

LA: Take you for a ride, yea, a long ride. Definitely freedom of speech is really important, but I think it’s also kind of limited in somehow. You can’t really say anything you want, and there is also some kind of implicit stereotypes, like when you want to apply for a job or something there is always some kind of racism, or some sort of discrimination going on.

CR: There’s the official America, then there’s the real America.

LA: Yea, exactly.

CR: Do you think you’ve suffered any discrimination in America? Particularly if people find out your Iraqi, because just looking at you, you look like the average white guy.

LA: I’m looking like the average white guy?

CR: Yea, when I saw you in class, I never thought you were middle-eastern, I thought like the suburbs. But when people find out your Iraqi, do you think you have discriminated against you?

LA: Well sometimes yes, sometimes no. I mean sometimes you, they, I don’t know why they have that idea you came from the desert, you are on a camel. Some people have those kinds of ideas, on the other hand there are people who really sympathize with me, they would apologize you know we are sorry. Then from that I really understand that those people they are really nice, they are not the same, there are some really good people, which is true for every race and every country.

CR: What do you think of us, the American people?

LA: It’s interesting that it’s kind of like multiple countries in one country. You got the White community, you got the Black community, you got the Latino community, then you got the Asian community. There’s all those kind of things, and each one has their own culture and stuff. I think like the Whites in general, they’re really afraid or something. There’s like something going on with them in terms of the changing demographic in the United States. They fear, I don’t know, I guess they fear change.

CR: They fear minority status.

LA: Yea I think so, definitely. I think that’s an on-going issue, that kind of racial thing. I don’t think it will ever end.

CR: Many people thought Obama’s election meant the end of racism. Shit, the tea party said hell no, and they just went after him with everything they had.

LA: There is a lot of things like, they will do everything just to disagree with him. Like even if they agree on something, they will disagree just because, you know.

CR: A lot of Obama’s policies were originally Republican policies. If you look at his policies, he’s not really a Democrat he’s really a liberal Republican.

LA: I don’t this idea of just two parties. I think there should be like an independent, or like a third party.

CR: We do have Independent’s, but most independents tend to vote along one party line or another, usually with the Democrats.

LA: Yea, well they don’t have a party, that’s what I’m saying.

CR: Let’s get back to this. Do you still have family and friends back in Iraq?

LA: I have some friends.

CR: Do you stay in touch with them?

LA: Yes I do. I mean in terms of family, I have like some on my father’s side, some uncles and aunties, but I don’t have any family relationship with them. We never spoke, we never talk. We’re kind of like strangers to each other, but in terms of my friends, I have some friends there that I went to elementary school with, and we try to keep in touch. One of them, I thought he was killed, but happily, and surprisingly, I found him, he actually found me on Facebook.

CR: What does he think about you being here?

LA: (rye laugh), well if you’re talking about him specifically, he’s kind of OK with that because he kind of understands why I came here, but if you’re talking about what people in general think about someone who is in America that’s a different story. They will, it’s kind of like those fallacies you know, like you’re living in the heaven, all the money, you got the big house on the beach. Their implication is they see a lot of movies, and they think that really is what America really is like, everyone is living a happy life, this tone of optimism. Yea, when they disagree with you on something it’s like, ah now your being an American ha. Like they tease you, oh now you’re an American now, they’ve spoiled you’re mind, now your corrupted.

CR: Would you like your friends back in Iraq to come to America?

LA: Well, I know like some of them they wanted to come because there are like all kinds of problems you can imagine, in Iraq, like for example, when I was there electricity is like one of them in terms of like utilities, the government is really; the only word I can think of is bad word, I want to say the government is fucked up.

CR: Oh, you can say that, it’s an American thing.

LA: Interestingly, I wouldn’t say that if I was speaking Arabic, I don’t know, I guess it’s the American part of me.

CR: You see we’ve corrupted you just like your friends said.

LA: It’s not true.

CR: Was it like that before the war – before the invasion – in terms of like, did you have the basic necessities in life, did you have electricity and all that stuff?

LA: Uh, in terms of electricity, it was much better than after the war. There was no water shortage, there was no like gas – which we have a lot of oil, and after the war people stand in line like for a day just to get gas.

CR: Is it still like that?

LA: No it’s better, but I think the worst time was like 2006 to 2008. It was terrible, it was like all kinds of problems. It was civil war, people killing each other, there were a lot of things going on.

CR: Do you work here?

LA: Now, no.

CR: Have you worked here?

LA: I worked like, really not a long time, maybe two month or three, with a self-employed, but he’s an Iraqi too so. I haven’t experience working for American supervisors. My brothers work, my father he doesn’t work because his, you know when you come from a foreign country they don’t recognize your bachelor degree, unless you go through some kind of process.

CR: Yea I’ve heard about that, but your brothers work here?

LA: Yeah.

CR: What kind of work do they do?

LA: Well, one of them he’s currently working also with a guy, he mainly do like construction, not construction, maintenance in buildings, they like fix lights, they paint, I guess they do a lot of this. Its manual job you could say. The other one he used to work as a break-faster, like in a hotel.

CR: A break-faster?

LA: You know the guys who they serve breakfast.

CR: Oh he’s a cook?

LA: No he doesn’t cook.

CR: He’s a waiter?

LA: Kind of like a waiter, but you can’t really say a waiter. It’s like, I remember his position it’s something like a break-faster.

CR: Breakfast?

LA: It’s not breakfast, I know what is a breakfast, but.

CR: I don’t know what that is – I guess you have to be rich to stay in those kinds of fancy hotels. The hotels I stay in have buffets.

LA: Yea they do, but what he told me about the hotel he was in was really not a good one and he quit the job actually, and he’s now he works in cliff-car or something. It’s like he’s a taxi, but he not an official taxi car, and now he’s trying to find a security position, he keeps changing. He has a lot of problems, and he actually created a lot of problems for the family as well, anyway.

CR: I guess the transition to this country has been tough on your family?

LA: Oh definitely, and what make it difficult in my case is my parents, they hate each other. They both want to play the victim role I guess. I mean he always like talk about things, I think he’s really, he plays the role of like he’s always right, he’s the one who has the right principles and ethics, he’s right and we’re all wrong, so if you disagree with him then you’re kind of the bad guy. I think in his earlier life he was totally the opposite person, he was like, I don’t know how do you say that in a good way. He was like in his marriage he drank, he goes with girls and all those things, and now even though I don’t do the things he do, and he still try to be strict, which is disgusting, I mean seriously, you’re talking about me, and don’t you remember what you were doing when you were my age and even when you were married.

CR: With the pressure your under, with the family and stuff, what do you do to release, do you talk to somebody, or get away with friends?

LA: Well, I spend most of my time just not going home. The only reason I would go home is if I just want a place to sleep.

CR: What do you do?

LA: You know for example, like I am in school now, I would just like do my homework. Usually if I would just go to a library or something and finish my homework, or do anything that keeps me away not to go home. Maybe I go to my uncle house, or you know, just not go home. And on the same side, he would always like, and my dad he would say, especially like we would have a celebration or something, and me and my mom would go my uncles house, he would say see you are corrupted, you are bad, you always leave me alone, but on the same hand, what do you want me to do? I can’t stay with you, you always argue and it’s not like you’re talking like we are a family. We’re not a family, we say we are, but we’re not, we’re just people living together, that’s all.

CR: Do you have any friends here?

LA: You mean American friends?

CR: Any kind of friends, outside of your family, outside of your siblings?

LA: I don’t think so, no. You mean like a close friend? No, which is really kind of sad, cause I used to have a lot of friends in Iraq and the United Arab Emirates, and I used to hang out with a lot of people, and when you see me you see like fifteen people with me but now I’m alone.

CR: I’m sorry to hear that, you should make some friends, you’re a nice guy, and I think that everybody can use friends.

LA: I think that the structure of like here is they just really want you to work, they kind of like make the system work this way that you go to school, then you go to work, then you go home, then you do this, then you do that. You don’t real have, it’s an individualistic society. It’s definitely that. You have a lot of individualism involved, there’s not a lot of social life here.

CR: Do you identify as Iraqi, or American or both?

LA: I’d say both, cause America has changed some ideas in me, I’ve grown as a person. I think I’ve been more open minded to accept different cultures, and different people, and different thoughts. I mean maybe one of them is the gay issue maybe, if you think like in terms of, if you ask any middle-east person – by the way I hate this term because it’s so misleading term.

CR: Middle-eastern?

LA: Yea, because the term was technically made by Britain when she was like,

CR: invading everybody,

LA: exactly, the term is like Great Britain is the center of the world, and those other countries are the middle-eastern in comparison to where Britain was, in the center. It is definitely geographically wrong, and because if you’re talking about geographically, you would only be talking about Afghanistan and other countries and nothing to do with location. Middle-eastern means all of them are Muslims, which is wrong, and that all of them are Arabs, which is wrong too.

CR: Europe and America get a lot of shit wrong. Would you ever return to Iraq for a visit, or to stay?

LA: If you’re saying like, you know, in maybe the coming ten years or so, I don’t think so because there is a lot of instability, and really the 2006 civil war has bisected the community, there is like a huge, huge corruption in the government, people are just like, they don’t really have like, they are not the same as,

CR: It’s not the same as when you were growing up there.

LA: no, but if things got better, I would definitely like to visit. My uncle, he went to Iraq like two years ago, and he took some pictures of some, you know, the house we were living in, and I like cried man. It’s like really sad, the neighborhood is just all different, the people; he said that even the peoples personalities have been changed. I don’t know.

CR: I think that happens in war, when people have suffered trauma. I can imagine living in Iraq, having a somewhat peaceful life, even if I didn’t like the dictator. I mean I didn’t like Bush, I think he was a dictator too, and then all of a sudden there’s war, and people I know die, bombs are being dropped on me, I would probably never be the same after that.

LA: Definitely, I think a lot has changed, and as I was telling you, I think I’ve changed, and I kind of accept people more.

CR: Well I guess this concludes our interview, and I really appreciate you doing this for me.

LA: No problem (very American).

 

Lito’s American Dream

Lito’s American Dream

by Arlesia Williams, December 2013

Since its early years, the United States has been viewed as “the land of opportunity,” and has attracted millions of people from all over the world hoping to achieve the “American Dream,” especially Latin Americans, due to how close they are to the U.S.  For many Latin Americans, this means working hard, sending money back to their families, and saving enough money so they can buy a house in their homeland for the day they return.  Acquiring the proper documentation to live in the U.S. can be a long and costly process, which causes many people to find alternative, and often risky, ways of entering the country undocumented; others are granted exile.  The U.S. allows a certain number of people to apply for exile, as long as the applicant has no affiliations with terrorists, gangs, or opposing governments.  In the mid-1980s, the U.S. offered the people of El Salvador the opportunity to apply for exile, which included temporary work visas if they wanted to escape the war.  Lito, a forty-one-year-old UPS driver and restaurant manager in San Francisco, along with his two older siblings, were granted these temporary visas.  He hoped that they would return to their homeland once the war was over, but has made San Francisco his permanent home, and has no intention of ever returning to El Salvador.  Somewhere along the way, Lito’s idea of the “American Dream” shifted from saving money to return home, to the “American Dream” so often portrayed by the media as an achievable goal by all, the idea that, if a person works hard enough, he or she is able to accomplish any goal they set for themselves and can reach great success.

Between 1980 and 1992, life in El Salvador was very difficult and uncertain due to the Salvadoran Civil War.  According to Susan Coutin, author of “The Odyssey of Salvadoran Asylum Seekers,” a 2004 article for the North American Congress on Latin America (NACLA), the war claimed the lives of approximately seventy-five thousand Salvadorans, and displaced twenty-five percent of the population.  The conflict was between the Salvadoran military government and the Farabundo Marti National Liberation Front (FMNLF), a coalition of five guerilla groups.  According to Cecilia Menjivar and Nestor Rodriguez, authors of When States Kill, “most massacres took place in the countryside” (101).  The military would invade small farm towns and torture or kill their community leaders.  The war was extremely violent and included the recruitment of child soldiers, the use of death squads, heavy military equipment, the deliberate terrorizing and targeting civilians, amongst many other human rights violations.  Although significantly opposed by the American public, the U.S. government contributed to the conflict by providing a large amount of military aid to the El Salvadoran government, and with the involvement of the CIA in torturing civilians and financing political campaigns.  According to the NACLA, “Because the U.S. was providing the Salvadoran government with military and economic aid, it was reluctant to recognize Salvadoran émigrés as victims of human rights abuses and as deserving of political asylum.”  Only three percent of Salvadorans were granted exile in the 1980s, and Lito was lucky to be one of them.

Lito was born in 1972 in the town of Son Sonate, El Salvador, and is the youngest of three siblings.  His father was a preacher and his mother was “the follower,” and they did what they could to provide their children with the basic necessities, and to protect them from getting involved in gangs or the military.  In the mid-1980s, two of Lito’s cousins and a few friends were forced to join the military, so his parents decided that they would do whatever it took to get him and his siblings out of El Salvador.  Their first thought was to hire a coyote to take them to the U.S., but, at three thousand dollars apiece, they simply could not afford it.  It was then that a relative told them about applying for a temporary visa to work in the U.S.  If granted, all they had to do was to pay for their plane tickets and their kids would be safe until the war was over.  Lito always dreamt of moving to the U.S., so this was his way out, a path to riches.  He explains, “I heard so many good stories about America growing up that it was my dream to come over here to have a better future for myself and I always thought that America was the best country to be.”  Lito’s oldest brother was the first to arrive in San Francisco in 1983, and quickly found a job and an apartment.  He sent all the money he had left after paying his bills back to his family so they could send the rest of his siblings to the U.S.; Lito was the last of the siblings to arrive in 1985.  They were not the only ones that his parents helped move to the U.S.  Lito had a friend who he considered to be a brother and had lived with his family since he was seven years old, and his parents made sure he made it to the U.S. as well.  When asked whether he thought that he could have a good future if he went back to El Salvador, Lito responded: “For work and make money, it’s the U.S.  To go back in my country and make the same kind of money I’m making over here it would never happen.”  After working in the U.S. and getting used to earning so much, he felt that, financially, he could never make a living in El Salvador.

            When he arrived in San Francisco, Lito moved in with his sister, whose goal was to enroll him in school while his older siblings worked to provide for their parents, but Lito had other plans.  His goal was to come to the U.S. and make money, not to go to school, so he started helping his sister cleaning offices and shortly after started working in a restaurant with her sister-in-law, where he was paid eight dollars a day and worked from eleven in the morning until ten at night.  Although he did not enroll in school full time, Lito attended ESL classes before going to work every morning.  According to Lito, not earning a lot of money, “it didn’t matter then because (he) wasn’t paying rent and (his) sister was helping (him) with food.”  At the time it seemed like a good deal, but, today, Lito understands that he should have been paid more but he is glad he was able to gain experience in the restaurant business, which led him to become a manager later on in his life.

            While initially carrying on traditions from his homeland was easy since Lito was staying with his sister, who was involved in the Salvadoran community, by 1995, he decided to make his own path and got into some trouble after the death of his best friend, who he considered his brother, by moving out of his sister’s house.  It was then that Lito decided to join a Salvadoran gang; he wanted to prove to his family and friends in El Salvador that he was still tough, a “real” man, and he also felt that he needed to act out his anger at the passing of his best friend.  Although he prefers not to give details about his gang life, he is proud of the fact that he was never personally involved with drugs or murder.  His involvement with the gang led him to jail a few times, but none over thirty-day sentences.  Lito admits that going through the justice system, in a way, made him more “American.”  In El Salvador, he explains, “If they find that you are guilty, they just kill you, but here they give you a chance.”  None of the arrests were gang related; they were all for drinking and driving.  He was starting to see the advantages of living in the U.S. and being protected by the law as opposed to life in El Salvador during the Civil War.  By 1998, Lito was determined to have a better life, so he left the gang and started working full-time at a local restaurant.  His best friend was his connection to home.  They dreamt of returning to El Salvador and showing off what they had become.  Without his best friend, Lito felt like his connection was diminishing and he was becoming more American each day.

            With the constant change in immigration policies in the U.S., Lito had to renew his work visa quite often.  The first visa he was granted was for three years, the second for six months, the third for one year and a half, and so on.  He was not granted a green card until 2005, his twentieth anniversary of living in the U.S.  Throughout the first ten years, his parents were not able to visit him here, and he was not allowed to leave the country.  Lito explains that “every Salvadoran, when they get to this country, they have the right to apply for work visa and that’s what I did in 1989. Then I apply for a social security number.  The only problem with that permit is that it was only valid for work, not to fly back and forth to my country.”  Once he got his citizenship, Lito’s brother was able to apply for a green card for his parents, who were granted the visa and stayed in the U.S. for a few months, but chose to continue living in El Salvador.  Life in San Francisco was too different from the life they had in El Salvador, and they were not willing to make the lifestyle adjustment.  Lito’s mother kept her green card and travels back and forth from El Salvador once or twice a year so she does not loose her status, but not his father. He did not like the U.S. and saw no point on keeping his green card.  Lito explains “My parents were never interest to move down here to live over here because they were already over 40 or 50 when they started coming to this country so they never got used to it.  They are ok over there. They like it.”  However, Lito and his siblings were able to save enough money to buy a piece of land and build a house for their parents, where they visit at least once a year.  In the past year, Lito’s father changed his mind and decided that now he is ready to live here, but was unable to get a visa.  Once a person is granted a green card, they have to commit to live in the U.S. for at least six months out of the year.  Since his father did not follow this rule, his visa was taken away, and once that happens, it can take up to a decade for a person to be able to apply for a new visa with little chance of them actually being granted one.

            In 1992, when the war ended, there was an overwhelming feeling of hope for the Salvadorian community, both in their homeland and afar.  While Lito’s parents believed their children would go back to El Salvador, the children were building a life in the U.S.  Lito’s siblings got married and started their own families, while Lito and his best friend were working hard and saving money, all while keeping a job and sending money to his parents.  Regardless of his extra-curricular activities, Lito kept his promise to his parents that he would always take care of them, in true Latino form.  In most Latino households, it is traditional for the children to take care of their parents once they start work; this is particularly true about male children.  As in most patriarchal societies, men are viewed as strong and able, while women are viewed as weak and should conform to household chores and taking care of the family.  Although Lito’s family was not as conventional as most considering that his sister took care of the home and worked, he still felt as if it was his responsibility to take care of them.  The only way he could take care of his parents was to stay in the U.S. and earn as much money as possible, and so he did.  However, this was also the time when Lito became more aware of his situation.  If he was to return to El Salvador, he would not be able to find a job that would pay him enough to take care of his responsibilities, and it would take decades of working here to save enough for him to be able to retire there.  “Every person come to this country, their dream is to come here and make money and get stuff.  Then they go back to their country to show what you got.  But at a point to myself I said I don’t feel secure in my country…I don’t plan to move back.”  The war might have been over, but the problems that plagued the people of El Salvador were not far from it.

            During the Civil War, there was a love-hate relationship between Salvadorans and the U.S. due to how the U.S. was supporting the government that was killing the people.  According to Lito, this sentiment has not changed, but the reasons are different.  When asked if he thought that the U.S. was a part of the reason why El Salvador is still in bad shape, Lito explains: “To me, in my mentality, yes it is.  Because they applied, introduced the American dollar over there without teaching people how to use it.”  With the dollar came inflation, which was not helpful to a country that was already in financial trouble.  Aside from the financial issue, there is also the violence that has increased since the U.S. started massive amounts of deportation in the past few years.  A large number of gang members and criminals were sent back to El Salvador, creating a hostel environment for Salvadoran, who cannot count on the local police to help them, since most of them are corrupt and, unless you can pay them off, will not help you.  Moreover, some laws set by the U.S. government have been implemented in El Salvador in hopes of restoring some order after the war, but they have done more harm than good, since the police department is corrupt and take the laws into their own hands, sometimes threatening or even killing people to get their way.

            Lito’s prospective has significantly changed since he was a child growing up in

El Salvador.  When he was a child, he dreamt of coming to the U.S. and making a lot of money so he could return to his country as an “important person.”  While he was still close to his best friend from childhood, it was easy to remain connected to his roots, but after his death, Lito started to see the world in a whole different light.  Suddenly, moving back to El Salvador was no longer an option; he had become too accustomed to the “safe” lifestyle that the U.S. offered.  He became friends with people from different backgrounds, built a career and a life in San Francisco.  Throughout our interview, Lito spoke of El Salvador as “my country,” but when I asked him whether he had any intention on returning to his homeland he said, without hesitation: “I never thought about it. I feel like I was born and raised in San Francisco so I like San Francisco and I plan to stay here.”  Although he did not move to the U.S. until he was a teenager, as with many immigrants who move here at that age, Lito felt as if he did most of his growing up here because that is when he made the transition from childhood to adulthood.  In addition, that is also the time when he became aware of the corruption and violence that was going on in his country, from an outsider’s prospective.  His dream is no longer to return home, but to build a life here.  When asked whether he thought that he could have a good future if he went back to El Salvador, Lito responded: “For work and make money, it’s the U.S.  To go back in my country and make the same kind of money I’m making over here it would never happen.”  After working in the U.S. and getting used to earning so much, he felt that, financially, he could never make a living in El Salvador.  The American Dream he so imagined for most of his life has been replaced by the one that all U.S. citizens know well.  He wants a steady job with benefits so he can support his future family, his “American” family.  Although the idea of moving back to El Salvador seem unrealistic for Lito, he hopes that one day his people can find peace, but he will be at a safe distance when that happens.

Work Cited

Menjívar, Cecilia, and Néstor Rodriguez. When States Kill: Latin America, the U.S., and Technologies of Terror. Austin: University of Texas, 2005. Print.

Coutin, Susan.  “The Odyssey Of Salvadoran Asylum Seekers.”  NACLA Report On The Americas 57.6 (2004): 38.  Web. 6 December 2013.

Wright, Mathew.  “Diversity and the Imagined Community: Immigrant Diversity and Conceptions of National Identity.” Cambridge: Harvard University, 2005. Web.  6 December 2013.

Deaux, Kay.  “An Immigrant Frame for American Identity.” New York: New York University, 2011.  Print.

Interview

Me: When did you move to the U.S.?

Lito: Back in 1987

Me: Can you describe what your hometown was like when you were living in El Salvador? Was it like a big city a small town?

Lito: We grew in a small town and after that we moved to the big city. I lived there for a few years like 3 years and then I moved to California.

Me: Ok. Do you have a big family small family?

Lito: My family is like 9 total 7 kids and my dad and my mom

Me: Ok.  When you moved here to the U.S. did you move here with your family or by yourself?

Lito: All my brothers and my sisters moved away one by one.  I was the very last one in ‘87

Me: Oh ok and how old were you moved here?

Lito: I was between like 14, 13, 15

Me: So early, early teenage years umm now when you moved here were you legal did you move with papers?

Lito: No I just came as an immigrant through mexico

Me: Ok, how does that work? Like when you are trying to leave el Salvador. Which way did you take? Did you know somebody or did you know other people that had moved here first and they showed you the way?

Lito: No I did have all my brothers and sisters over here, my parents find someone to bring me down here

Me: Oh ok, did they have to like pay them?

Lito: Yes they did.

Me: Was it a lot for the time?

Lito: I’m not really sure how much it was but I believe back in the day it was more than $3000

Me: Oh wow, in the ‘80s that was pretty big amount of money.

Lito: Yeah nowadays it’s like $8000.

Me: $8000 to come to the country? How long did it take for you to get here, from the day you left El Salvador to when you got here?

Lito: I remember if I’m correct it was something like 15 20 days.

Me: Wow how did you transport did you fly? Did you take a bus a car how was the journey from?

Lito: We did a majority in the bus from el Salvador all the way down to Mexico and in Mexico city we took an airplane to fly over the desert all the way down to Tijuana.

Me: When you got here did you stay with your family?

Lito: Yeah, with my older sister.

Me: Were they in San Francisco or a different city?

Lito: She was in San Francisco

Me: Ok, so you always stayed in San Francisco?

Lito: Always

Me: Since you moved here you always been here?

Lito: Yes

Me: Now, before you moved here what did you expect? Like, why did you move here in the first place? Did you come to work or did you want to be with your family?

Lito: We were, me personally my parents were looking for a better life for me because el Salvador wasn’t getting any better.  The military was recruiting younger kids like 14 16, and the guerillas and the other side of the hand were recruiting they were recruiting either I mean they were recruiting too, so my parents they were scared to keep me down in el Salvador.

Me: Did you have any friends or family members that joined the military, did you know anybody that joined the military or were forced too?

Lito: My parents ….. to me a couple of his nephews they were in the military but they were me personally I met a couple of times but I never got to know them better.

Me: Ok, alright, how did you when you moved here did you go to school or did you start working, how did you live?

Lito: My sister tried to put me in school but at the same time I just wanted to work make my own money make my own life and that’s what I did.

Me: So you just hung out with friends?

Lito: Yeah I just hung out and worked and things like that.

Me: Where was the first place you worked when you got here?

Lito: I was helping my sister as a janitor cleaning office and after that I was working with this lady cleaning houses and a few years later I started working at restaurant business.

Me: Ok, how long did you work did you work in the restaurant business?

Lito: Like literally like when I was 17 until like now I am still on call at the restaurant job.

Me: What type of work did you do in the restaurant?

Lito: I started washing dishes back in the day took like a year or two to become a line cook a few years 3 years later ask me if I wanted to do something like else prepping having more responsibilities like doing orders and stuff like that bout 5 years later I started being assistant manager.

Me: Where do you work now? You said that you were still on call at the restaurant and where do you work other than the restaurant?

Lito: I work at UPS right now.

Me: Ok. And what do you do there?

Lito: I am UPS driver and I do some part time preloading.

Me: So when you first came here and you weren’t going to school were you did you get into any kind of trouble as far like with the law and kind of trouble then in your early years?

Lito: Not in my early years. That was after like 95 96 that I started getting in trouble.

Me: Up until then you just worked lived with your family still at some point you went off to live?

Lito: Yeah I moved out of my sisters house I think It was 94.

Me: Ok

Lito: Since then I have been living by myself.

Me: When did you get legal status? When did you get a green card?

Lito: It was in 2005

Me: 2005 are you a citizen now or you still have a green card?

Lito: I still have a green card.

Me: Before you got your green card did you ever travel back home to el Salvador?

Lito: Never did

Me: You never went back home before then?

Lito: No

Me: Are you parents still in el Salvador? Or are they here?

Lito: My daddy you to fly back and forth in the 90’s then for some reason he didn’t want to come back to the country, now my mom is the one flying back and forth.

Me: Ok so she comes to visit?

Lito: Right

Me: So she comes to you guys.  Ok. Now when you were working were you sending money home to the family?

Lito: Yeah always have.

Me: The rest of your siblings they were doing the same? Like sending home money?

Lito: Brothers and sisters yeah they were too

Me: So everyone was taking care of the family? Back then,

Lito: Right.

Me: Before you moved here what were your expectations of the united states, like what did you think was going to happen when you got here? Did you think you were going to make a lot of money? Did you think life was going to be harder than it was before?

Lito: It was I heard so many good stories about America growing up that it was my dream to come over here to have a better future for myself and I always thought that America was the best country to be.

Me: Now when you came here and started working was it what you expected was the US all that you thought it was?

Lito: Not really whatever the good stories I heard was not really what I expected, but it was better than where I was before.

Me: Now did you like here in San Francisco did you have a lot of people from your community, do you know a lot people from el Salvador is there a community that has events and things that carry on the traditions I suppose?

Lito: They do there a lot of el Salvadorian events especially for September 15 day independence day for el Salvador some other occasions for other events the bring some music band and artists from el Salvador just to collect money to help others down there, but yeah I go sometimes to those events. But I know a lot a lot of people from El Salvador just………..

Me: People that you are used to?

Lito: People I hang around with sometimes.

Me: Yeah now did you how different is your life here from what it was like in ES you know aside from its different its always different but like here do you feel more comfortable here than you would there.  Like if you had to go back there do you think have a good future as far as work and family or do you think that the US is better?

Lito: For work and make money it’s the US.  Do go back in my country and make the same kind of money I’m making over here it would never happen.

Me: Now when you moved here did you speak English?

Lito: Nah

Me: How did you learn? Since you didn’t go to school initially, how did you start to learn English?

Lito: Just my sister tried to put me in school, I didn’t like it at all I didn’t want to have any of the responsibilities homework and things like that, but at the same time I was having my job and going to school in the mornings you know like adult school just to learn English, computers or whatever.  I used to go here and there for like 6 months.   The majority of the English I just learned, like practicing talking to people you know trying to get a better job a different level when you learn more English.

Me: When you started working in restaurants because while you cleaning offices you were working with your sister, but when you started working in resturaunts did you feel discriminated against in any kind of way, did you feel they were paying you less or treating you differently because you weren’t from here.

Lito: Not really in the beginning because I was just helping out my sister, so my sister was just giving me some money because I was helping her. And then my sister in law had a restaurant and back in ’89 they were giving me $8 a day and it started from 11 to 10 and early in the morning I was going to school like I was saying like until 1030.   Then I would go work over there after school.

Me:  Did you start getting paid more after you got your green card, or did you demand more money because you had more experience?

Lito:  What I think is that it’s the experience that make more money. If you have more experience, automatically the money will fall on you. Uh, when I was washing dishes I was making like $3.75 back in the day.  So, when I was a cook and a prep and I was doing orders for this manager, I was making like $7.75 and, and, after a year I was making $8.50. After 8 years I started being a manager at Chevy’s, so I started making $42,000.00 a year.

Me:  That is really good money.

Lito:  Back in the day, yeah.

Me:  When you went through the process of getting your green card, huh, how did you apply for it? Were you living here illegally?

Lito:  No, because I was legally because every Salvadorian when they get to this country they have the right to apply for work visa and that’s what I did in 1989. Then I apply for a social security number.  The only problem with that permit is that it was only valid for work, not to fly back and forth to my country.

Me:  How long do you get to keep this permit?  For as long as you want or is there a limitation?

Lito:  It was a limitation like every…well, the first one I had was for three years. The second was for a year and a half.  I had to always renew it because there is always different laws because of the war.

Me:  Now, does this permit make it so you have to work in a specific field or you can work anywhere?

Lito:  It is for any type of work, the only thing is that the permit was for a person who applied in 85 to 87 were the only ones allowed to get this permit.

Me:  So, it was only for that period of time and it doesn’t happen anymore?

Lito:  No, for people coming in the 90s, it was a different law.  Because in the 80s in El Salvador it was the war going on and all that kind of stuff, like, Honduras people when they go to this country in the 90s because of the hurricane, a lot of people came to this country because they had the right to apply for a visa because they couldn’t survive over there.  So the U.S. gave them a permit to work only.

Me:  So how did you have to apply?

Lito:  When the visa expires, you go back to renew and tell them that you are afraid to go back to your country.  If you follow every single step for 10 years, then they tell you can apply to stay in this country.  And is up to them if you get the green card or not.

Me:  Oh, okay.  From the time you applied, how long did it take you to get the green card?

Lito:  With my first lawyer, we applied in 99 or 2000.  I got it about 5 to 6 years later.

Me:  When it came time for you to get the green card, did you have to go through an interview process or you just get the paper when they approve it?

Lito:  It is an interview that they do to you, it’s a step that they have to ask you why you were here in the first place and why you want to stay.  I said that I was a minor and I came here to get away from the military or the other side of people fighting and I was a student.  So, they basically ask you all those questions in the interview and if you follow every single step, they will keep in touch with you but they don’t give you the green card right away.  But you have to have a good reason why you want to stay.

Me:  How long did the war go on in El Salvador and is that still going on?  How is life in El Salvador now?

Lito:  Right now that I go down there and visit is…before we leave the country the war was going on and now I don’t feel that kind of safe because all the gang bangers that used to live in the U.S., back in the early 2000 they got deported, so now they are doing the same thing there.  Whatever they were doing over here, they are doing to our country.  And they are destroying the country.  All the garbage they didn’t want over here, they (the U.S.) send them back to their country, so now all the things they were doing in jail and on the streets over here, they are doing over there.

Me:  So there’s more gangs and more violence?

Lito:  It’s very dangerous.  Because over here everybody thinks twice before they kill somebody.  In our country, you just kill somebody and start running and they don’t find you.  The laws are not the same.

Me:  Now, you said you had a little trouble with the law in the 90s.  Can you tell me a little bit about that?

Lito:  I was back in 95, I had a brother, he wasn’t blood but he grew up with us.  When he was 7 he stayed in our house and my parents paid for him to get down here.  He is like my real brother and, uh, in 95 he passed away.  And (pause) I got a little bit depressed and missed work and started drinking a little bit more and started getting in a little more deep into the gang and stuff like that.  I think it was my way out to relieve my anger of loosing a brother. So, the police got me a couple of times and I got 2 DUIs, but it didn’t do anything.  I just got angrier and in deeper trouble.

Me:  Did you get arrested?

Lito:  Yeah, the longest I was ever in jail was like 30 days.  I still had my work visa, but because I didn’t have to go to an interview when I was renewing the visa it didn’t affect it.  I was a little worried when I went for my first interview for my green card.

Me:  So what happened in the interview?

Lito:  They were talking about my criminal record and they were saying that I had about 8 DUIs, which wasn’t true but I had to prove it that I had only two and they were not trying to help me at all but things got better and I still got my green card.

Me:  Now, did you have to get a lawyer?

Lito:  I did have a lawyer in my first interview but they didn’t want to talk to him.  They wanted me to talk about myself.  They denied me the first time.  The second time I went back with the police reports to prove that I only had 2 DUIs and they denied it that moment.  After that, later, like a year, my lawyer told me that they were looking for me because I was approved and nobody told me for a whole year.

Me:  Did you feel like you were being discriminated against during the process?

Lito:  Not the first interview, but the second time, the person was from the Philippines and he had the same situation as our country.  He was asking me things like what would I do if I got deported.

Me:  Was he threatening you a little bit?

Lito:  Pretty much.

Me:  Are you a U.S. citizen now?

Lito:  No, I just got a green card.

Me:  Do you plan to become a U.S. citizen?

Lito:  Yes, as soon as I qualify.

Me:  How long does that take?

Lito:  I qualify now, I just kinda very busy and lazy to fill out the paperwork, but I know in the future is very important to have your citizenship.  That’s my next goal.

Me:  Do you have kids?

Lito:  No, but I plan to have some one day.

Me:  Are you happy that you are in the U.S. and you are able to provide a future family all the things in the U.S. as opposed to being in El Salvador?

Lito:  Yes, that’s one of the main reasons why most of the people come to this country.  If you have plans to have kids you don’t want your kids to go through all the things you went through.  Not without tv, not without toys that everybody wants.  You know now you have a job that you can make good money so you can provide your kids with somethings you never had when you were kids.

Me:  What did your parents do when you were growing up/

Lito:  They were a minister, my daddy was a pastor and my mom was a follower.

Me:  So they raised you very religious?

Lito:  Yes, 80% of the people in El Salvador are very religious.

Me:  Is there a lot of domestic violence in El Salvador?

Lito:  It used to be back in the day but today women I think woke up and prefer to be single and not with somebody beating them every day.

Me:  Is life in the U.S. what you expected?  Are you happy the way your life turned out?

Lito:  Of course not, nobody is happy about waking up at 2 to 3 in the morning to go to work everyday, working 16 hours a day, but, you know, like I said before, better offers to be here and not in our country because at least we have a job over here and can make money.  We make triple in one day what they make there in one week

Me:  Did your parents ever have any interest in moving here?

Lito:  My parents were never interest to move down here to live over here because they were already over 40 or 50 when they started coming to this country so they never got used to it.  They are ok over there. They like it.

Me:  How often do you get to visit them?

Lito:  Now I go once a year and stay about 3 weeks. My mom comes here every 6 months.

Me:  Does she have to apply for a visa every time she comes?

Lito:  No, my brother is a citizen so he applied for my parents to get a green card.  She flies back and forth every six months so she doesn’t loose her green card.  My father had a green card too but never applied to renew it because he like El Salvador better.  Now he regrets that because he wanted to come over here but it’s a little too late.  We would have to do the process again.

Me:  Is it expensive to do that?

Lito:  You have to have a secure job and you need to make more that $28,000 a year and a letter from your job to prove to them that you have a job and they pay you enough

Me:  When you first got here, did you think that you would ever go back to El Salvador?

Lito:  Every person come to this country, their dream is to come here and make money and get stuff.  Then they go back to their country to show what you got.  But at a point to myself I said I don’t feel secure in my country

Me:  So, security became more important than showing off what you had?

Lito:  Right.  I don’t plan to move back there.

Me:  Is your plan to stay in San Francisco?  Do you ever think of living anywhere else in the U.S.?

Lito:  I never thought about it. I feel like I was born and raised in San Francisco so I like San Francisco and I plan to stay here

Me:  Do you feel like the situation in El Salvador could get better in the next 10 years?

Lito:  I don’t, I don’t see that coming.  It’s getting worse

Me:  Do you feel the U.S. is somewhat responsible for how the situation in El Salvador has changed in the past 30 years?

Lito:  To me, in my mentality, yes it is.  Because they applied, introduced the American dollar over there without teaching people how to use it.  Before you used to buy like 2 eggs for 1 colon, which is like 15 cents over here, now you buy 2 eggs with one dollar, which it was 8 colons over there.  Literally, you spend like 8 times on what you are spending or more than what you were spending like 10 years ago.

Me:  In your opinion, do you think the U.S. had something to do with the war that was going on in El Salvador?

Lito:  When I was little I didn’t realize is that, is that when I was growing up, and when I was 8-years-old I figured out that, yeah, the U.S. got a little responsibility for that. Like lately, new law that they introduced over there is the same.  What happens is, the criminal has more rights than the civilians over there.  Like, if someone comes and robs you in your own house and they point you with a gun and you shoot them first and they got killed in your house, because you killed him in your property, you get arrested for life.  Is either way.  Either you dead or they dead but the law over there is the same law over here, but they don’t look at it the same way. Ok, it’s self defense, sorry you killed him, and one year in jail and that’s it.  No, they don’t think that way.  They put you in jail like you are the criminal.

Me:  Is the law there pretty corrupt?

Lito:  Some of them because, I think, criminal have the same rights as the government, I think.  If you are a security guard in some place or if you are a police officer in that area, they will pay you to close your eyes.  Either you take the money or you are dead.

Me:  Is there a big drug problem, I mean, a big drug trafficking problem in El Salvador or is it more of the Civil war that is the problem?

Lito:  Is more of the Civil war going on between gangs and the people, because if you have a small business, literally selling like $10 a day, in your little liquor store or whatever you have, they will come and take those $10 and whatever you make on the day time, or you are dead.

Me:  Oh, wow.  When the situation got a lot more violent with the gangs, was it between gangs and the government, or gangs and the people, or was it everybody fighting for their lives?

Lito:  It started between gangs, you know, people knew each other on the street and they went over there and they started fighting each other.  And after that they got along and they started getting on the regular people.  You know, like, you coming from shopping or whatever they, they pull up a knife or a gun, they just take whatever you have.  And that’s their territory and whatever rule they were following over here or in jail, you know, like, you give up your booty or you give up your food, or whatever, and they are doing over there the same rules on the street.  And I don’t that’s fair.

Me:  Were they involving kids in this, like, recruiting kids?

Lito:  Oh yeah.  Like 10, 12-year-old kids.  Because basically the law over there it is the same as the law over here.  If you are a minor, they send you to the, uh, not the person can do to charge you because you are a minor.  Over there they a minor, if a minor kill somebody, they are gonna get only one or two years and they are gonna be out and it’s easy for them.  But when you are over 18 or over 20, if you kill somebody, they know they are gonna give you the 20 to 25 or whatever.

Me:  Do you know anyone that live in San Francisco that, that, had to go through any type of gangs like that?

Lito:  [hand signal suggesting he didn’t want to talk about that]

Me:  Are you forced to go into the military in El Salvador

Lito:  You used to before when it was the army, they take you like when you were strong enough.  It didn’t matter if you were 14 or 16 or, uh, they forced you to go.  Now they don’t have a military that, like one like the army.  They do now only have like regular police and you have to have to have a degree to get into it they are the most corrupted.  They will tell either my family go through or will be dead.  So police just walk around like they didn’t see anything and they just get there after they are dead and say somebody got killed.  It happens all over the world. You call 911 over here and they ask “are you bleeding?” so they go “oh, ok the police will be there in half an hour.”  In Latin America is even worse.

Me:  Overall, in your opinion, why do you think people move to the U.S. from your country?

Lito:  I would say that, my country, El Salvador, people move for a more secure, more safe. They just wanna come and make some money for the family over there.  And for the rest of the Central America, either they got two options: either they go down to El Salvador to sell something or to work over there for a dollar, an American dollar, and they go back to Honduras, Panama, or Nicaragua, it triples, eight times the money.  They bring some dollars to their country.  But for us, we do it for the money and for a better life for our family, or the security and status, that’s much better.  People come from the other countries to make country sometimes like they cross the Rio Grande.  They come to sell things and they can’t get caught because is against the law.  They have the choice to try to come to the U.S., or they take their chances in El Salvador.  You can build a fence, but we will find a tunnel.  Exactly like the U.S.

Me:  Well, thank you very much for your time.

Lito:  No problem.

Exile for Yedel

Exile for Yedel

by Ruth Alemu, December 2013

Has it ever boggled your mind why people want to leave their counties and struggle through different cultures just to start a whole new life? Or have you ever wondered why some people don’t just work hard in their own countries and better themselves? Well, people leave their families and countries to find better life, peace, freedom, money or love. A conducted interview with an immigrant named Yedel Sew, who currently resides in the Bay Area, explains why people are exiled to other countries. Yedel Sew is from Ethiopia and grew up in a good neighborhood in the historic city Bahir Dar. He was exiled to the United States to find freedom for himself because he was punished for criticizing the Ethiopian government about forbidding the freedom of speech and the choosing of one’s own political party. For a long time, he had refused to give in to anger or exile; instead, he resisted the government threats.The government accused him of being a terrorist when they found out that he was working with the opposition political parties to bring about a fair democratic government. Despite the fact that no accusation had evidence, many of his friends were imprisoned and killed. Yedel wanted to leave the country when he realized that most of his friends had been thrown in jail or killed. According to Yedel, the torture was extraordinary; for instance, the males were forced to carry and pull heavy weights tied on their genitals until they pointed out one of their political member. For this reason, Yedel left his country and exiled himself to the United States of America (USA), and suffered through lots of misery. He left his good job, family and fiancé behind. His exile to the US was more devastating for his fiancé and his mother, not only because he was their source of income but also they couldn’t flee with him. During his journey, he was hungry, slept in refugee camps, was imprisoned, and almost lost his life while he was traveling on a boat. Although arriving to the US seemed to promise a life with freedom, being an undocumented immigrant made it difficult to find jobs and start a new life all over again. Until he acquired legal papers that allow him to stay in the US, he worked under the table, which was difficult for him because employers often felt free to pay him low wages and ignore dangerous conditions since he had no legal way of complaining. Along with significant language and cultural barriers, exile left him with a lengthy bureaucratic procedure until he established his new legal status. People that are facing political problems in their counties, like Yedel, should exile themselves to other countries in order to gain freedom regardless of encountering multiple setbacks and struggle during the journey because it will help them live better lives.

Being a refugee from third world country was challenging due to the rising of anti-refugee sentiment in many industrialized countries; the journey to the US was not as smooth as Yedel assumed. He started his journey from Ethiopia to Cuba with legal visa (a passport), but from there to the US, his passport was useless not only because he was travelling by car and boat but also because he was coming from a third world country, which didn’t guarantee him a pass or respect. He described how he left his passport in Ecuador: “I threw away my Ethiopian passport since it is no longer helping me to transfer, because I couldn’t get any visa with Ethiopian passport” (Yedel). Having an Ethiopian passport definitely prevented him from getting a visa because most of the people from third world countries are running from their homes scared of war and poverty, like him. His long travel includes the countries Cuba, Ecuador, Colombia, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, Mexico and lastly, the United States. Yedel and his two friends started the big journey together without any knowledge of where or how to go. Eventually, they contacted some smugglers to assist them through their journey. Besides the payment paid to the smugglers, they had to bribe the officers every time they got pulled over. He wrapped a stack of pesos with a U.S. dollar and handed to the police officer to make it look like a lot of U.S. dollars because he couldn’t afford to pay them in dollars every single time they pulled him over. Long drives, walking, staying in refugee camps and being thrown in jail without knowing for how long they would be kept, the journey was extremely distressing. There was a time when Yedel almost lost his life; he was trying to cross the border between Colombia and Nicaragua with a small boat made out of wood that carried around fifty people without any access to restrooms. He says, “The smugglers told us we will arrive in two days, but it took us eight days. We were lost in the middle of the journey and the boat run out of gas, so we put bed sheet to move the boat with the help of wind. The phone inside the boat stopped working; they said no battery. Also, we were moving without any compass and we didn’t eat anything else except one apple a day” (Yedel). It was a life and death situation for him to be in that boat because there was lack of basic survival necessities such as food, water and restrooms in addition to getting lost in the middle of nowhere. The boat was overcrowded, making it potentially dangerous, but they continued with the journey. The trip lasted days; the waves were high and they suffered more when the motor stopped and they began moving through the help of the wind. When they finally reached land, it was like liberation. Even though being from a third world country was a setback on his journey, he felt liberated when he reached the freedom land.

Although Yedel wanted to stay in Ethiopia, the government dictatorship made him run from his country due to the fact that there was no equality between ethnic groups and also political difference was not accepted. While he was in Ethiopia, freedom of speech was like a dream. The dictator leader wouldn’t let him live because he was against the system. He explained his experience in anger: “While I was in Ethiopia I had a very nice job with the field I graduated and I had a good life. But I have been jailed and beaten around three four times only because I was spoken the truth during community meetings. When you say I need freedom, they will look for trouble and beat you up” (Yedel).  The so-called “Democratic Party” controls the country. If a person talks about what is wrong and what is right, that person will end up in jail. That is why an independent and ambitious young man like Yedel could not live in Ethiopia because he believes in speaking out. He fought not only for himself but also for people who can’t fight for themselves as well. In reality, he doesn’t have security or the guarantee of his life because they can throw him in jail any time. Hence, Yedel left his country even though he wanted to stay and do something tangible to improve his country. Before he left, Yedel was becoming wealthy because of his hard work, but the ruling party was not happy with what he was getting and wanted to destroy him. In the 2005 election, Yedel and his friends participated in the opposition political party. The idea was to push the government to have a free and fair democratic election but the government was harassing the opposition parties and was using systematic political control, which made the election difficult. At that time, the majority of the people were supporting the opposition party, so, if the government didn’t want to have a fair election, they wanted them to give up power peacefully but when the government found out about their plan, they put his life in danger. Yedel fought until he couldn’t take it anymore; however, waiting for his death was not possible for him because some of his friends got imprisoned, tortured, were deprived of sleep and food and lastly killed. Given these actions, Yedel left his country in order to flee from extreme and almost humiliating politics.

Knowing his basic rights helped Yedel to gain his freedom, yet many times he was denied it. While crossing a border, there was moment when they put him in jail without letting him know how long he had to stay there. They were caught at the Nicaraguan border by the border police and imprisoned for forty-five days. During those forty-five days staying there caused a lot of suffering; the food was not etable, the hygiene was bad and they were sleeping on the floor. Because of the bad treatment they received, Yedel and his friends planned to do a hunger strike in order to fight for the basic human rights they were denied. The hunger strike went very well as he explained, “We didn’t eat for eight days while we were in the journey and again we did four days food strike, so some of the people got constipated and sick. Normally, they are not allowed to have under age prisoners in the facility but one of the guy that fainted was not even eighteen. They were scared of being sued so they begged us to eat and promised to let us go” (Yedel). This shows that they knew this strike would attract human right fighters’ attention, which in the end helped to free them. Besides, the guy who fainted was not even eighteen years old; thus, he was not supposed to be imprisoned with them. Fighting for their rights allowed them to continue their freedom journey. Then, Yedel and his friends left Nicaragua because the Nicaraguan government asked them to pay for every night they stayed at the camp. As they had planned already, they continued their journey to the United States and left Nicaragua. In the book Underground America, a collection of the narratives of undocumented immigrants compiled by Peter Orner, a storyteller, Abel, was abused by his employer but knowing his rights and fighting for it saved him from abuses. He said, “Some of us are more comfortable speaking up about our rights—we know what we are entitled to. We speak to Americans, people who do have papers, people who work at organizations, people who can do something for us. The bosses of the companies are afraid of these organizations because they support us” (Orner 132). Even though he didn’t have legal papers to stay in the country, knowing his rights helped Abel to fight for himself. Yedel did the same thing too; he stood up for his rights, looked for organizations to fight for his right. Therefore, knowing his basic human rights minimized the suffering during the exile.  

Although Yedel felt ambivalent when he discovered that his expectations about the United States were unrealistic, he was happy because he gained freedom, which was the center of his journey. Life in The United States started out great for him though it was not as he expected. Although the job market and the economy was not as good as he expected, he did not complain since his main reason of moving to the US was to gain freedom. He said, “The main reason I exile from my country is because of freedom so I am okay with any economical or personal disappointment like missing my family. I was not respected in my own country but I am living here freely. Nobody touches you” (Yedel). While he was in his country, he had a good job but in the United States, because of his legal status he wasn’t able to get a better job and he was a little bit disappointed by that; plus, by the time he arrived in the United States, the economy of the country was not in good condition. The other thing that makes him disappointed is missing his family; in fact, he can’t reach his family any time soon. Yedel has missed not only his family but also his longtime fiancé who he was about to get married to within a month before leaving the country, but he was waiting for her to graduate. He was preparing for their wedding but sadly he had to leave right away to avoid putting his life in danger. During his journey, he couldn’t communicate with her because he was not in good condition either. That created a big gap between them and it was too late to fix the problem because she got married and had kids. She couldn’t wait for him since he was not able to go back to the country. Yedel said, “It is hard to get that kind of love right now. I don’t have that kind of satisfaction and happiness right now.” He loved his fiancé too much and can’t bring the old time feeling and satisfaction with anybody else.

Things haven’t gone smoothly with his family either; the family business that he took care of is now out of service, and the cafeteria he owned was sold to cover his expense in the United States. His family is not at the same economic level; his brothers got fired from their jobs because they were working for a government office and, since they are connected with Yedel, the government took revenge on them. After four years, one of his brothers started working some low level jobs even though he is a graduate from the university and had been working for long time. Yedel was full of anger when he talked about the crises in his family. He couldn’t support and provide his family like before because in the United States the working situation is different. He doesn’t have motivation like before when he used to go to school while working long hours and taking care of his own business. He said that he was taking care of all that responsibility just to get rid of the stress he had in his country. More or less, he is happy in United States, though he is not in the position that he supposed to be. Altogether, Yedel lost three major things in his life: his family’s economic status, his job, and his fiancé.  But freedom has balanced all his losses.

Even though it’s hard to predict the future, Yedel believes change will come through time with the help of an endless effort. In the future, Yedel has some expectations for his life and has already planned to do lots of things in the coming New Year. He wants to go to school, work hard, start a family in the United States, and help his country to gain a free media because the ruling party controls most of the media. His passion for his country is still fresh. Surely, he wants to participate more in politics; so far, he writes articles and gives donations every month to private medias organizations because he believes the media plays a big role in politics. The Ethiopian government has banned almost all private media outlets for reporting facts about the government’s hidden actions. “The Anointed Leadership,” an article written by Makau wa Mutua, shows the current image of Ethiopian journalism: “Human rights groups estimated that over 60 journalist have either been imprisoned, detained, or are awaiting trial for being critical of the government” (Mutua 2). Government authorities have imprisoned journalists on a mass scale on terrorism charges only for speaking of the truth. Only government medias can talk about politics; around twenty non-governmental magazines have been closed but four private magazines are still open only because they allow the government to manipulate their messages. They will not report reality; they do not talk about the people who are lost in the dessert while trying to escape from the country. Even though he lives from paycheck to paycheck, he knows that, if he contributes something, it will help a lot. He said, “I support the media because I want to know what is going on in my country and the only means I can get that report is from the private media. I cannot forget about my country. I will not sleep until I see freedom in my own country like other countries” (Yedel). This shows the last ultimate vision of Yedel is to see the free flow of information and freedom of expression without the influence of political units. Ethiopia lives in a world where information is literally fabricated for the people as truth but nowadays bloggers play a big role in spreading information. Yedel helps these bloggers financially. One of the anonymous bloggers said in the article “The Hazards Of Dissent,”“The blog carried reports and analysis of the trial of opposition leaders. In some cases, international human rights group like Amnesty International have followed through the leads in my blog and demanded the government stop its human right abuses. Under pressure, the government released some prisoners and closed torture chambers” (Zagol 62). Not only do the bloggers increase the flow of information but they also help justice to be served. Therefore, because people like Yedel supported the media, for example the blogger mentioned above, the increase of the flow of information has brought the government to reconsider their decision, which fulfills Yedel’s hope for change.

 In conclusion, although people like Yedel go through multiple setbacks and struggle when they flee from their countries due to political problems, finding freedom and living in a country where freedom of speech is respected brings feeling of accomplishment in life. Migrating would also allow others like him to continue helping their countries as he has with the support of media as mentioned in the above paragraphs. On the contrary, others may think that, instead of fleeing from one’s country, one should stay and face the problem in order to solve it. People like Yedel do not choose to flee from their countries to make money or to relax; instead, they are exiled to the US to spare their lives from ending up like his friends—imprisoned or killed.   

 

Work Cited

“The Hazards Of Dissent.” Index On Censorship 36.4 (2007): 59-63. Academic Search Premier. Web. 12 Dec. 2013.

Mutua, Makau wa. “The Anointed Leadership.” Africa Report 39.6 (1994): 30. MasterFILE Premier. Web. 12 Dec. 2013.

Orner, Peter, and Tom Andes. Underground America: Narratives of Undocumented Lives. San Francisco: McSweeney’s, 2008. Print.

 

 

From Nicaragua to San Francisco: Mercedes’ Exile and Home

How Did The Civil War in Nicaragua Exile My Mother Mercedes From Her Own Country, and How Did This Force Her To Find A New Home?

By Judith Mendoza, May 10^th, 2013

It is hard to live in a country that is at war, and even harder to live in a country that is at war with itself.  There were many civil wars in Central America during the 1980’s, which left many people in those countries with no choice but to flee their countries for fear of their lives.  The second Civil War in Nicaragua was no exception; in fact, it was the second war that served as a starting point for the surrounding countries in Central America to have civil wars.  I mention Nicaragua, because that is where my mother is from, and I specify that it is the second civil war, because there were two wars that were very close to each other in time.  The first was the Liberales (Liberals) against the Conservadores (Conservatives), and this war ended on January 22^nd 1966, when the Liberales killed thousands of innocent people by shooting out of helicopters.  The second one was when the Guerillas, which are now called Sandinistas, rose up against the Somosistas, which were with the dictator Somoza, and which were also called the Guardia (the Guards).  This is the war that caused many people to flee from their homes and families in Nicaragua for their safety, including my mother and my six older brothers and sisters, because from both sides of the fight, my mother and her family’s lives were in danger.  I conducted an interview with my mother, Mercedes Mendoza, and during the interview, she told me about her struggles and the fears she went through and experienced on the last days leading up to her leaving Nicaragua.  When there is a civil war, both sides suffer and cause suffering, because they are not fighting against other countries, but amongst themselves.  In Nicaragua’s case, both sides were causing harm to the people, which caused my mother to be exiled from her country in a way, and forced her to find some other country and home to  “hang her hat.”

My mother, Mercedes Mendoza (which is not her full name, as she wishes that her full name remain anonymous), was born in Managua, Nicaragua in the year 1951.  From the time she was young, she knew only war, because in Nicaragua she survived two wars, and an earthquake that according to my mom “leveled” Nicaragua, which means that most if not all buildings fell.  She fled Nicaragua with her oldest six children in June of the year 1982.  She fled after the FSLN (the Sandinista front) entered the city in 1979, because it was rumored that things would get worse, and they did after the Sandinista movement took over.  She fled to United States, because this is the closest country that she could travel to where she had friends that were willing to help her and her six children escape the wars in Nicaragua.

The Guerillas, which were the guerillas that fought against the Guardia, the National Guard (Guards), where a group that called themselves Sandinistas, and their political group is called FSLN,  “Frente Sandinista Liberacion Nacional,” which translates to Sandinista National Liberation Front.  They got their name  “Sandinistas” from a hero of theirs named Augusto Cesar Sandino.  Sandino was a hero, because in the 1920’s he rose up against the U.S. Marines that were occupying Nicaragua, and believed in power for the people.  In a book called  Democracy and Socialism in Sandinista Nicaragua, Harry E. Vanden and Gary Prevost bring in a quote from Humberto Ortega Saavedra, in which he states:

“We could say that we did not invent the fundamental elements of our liberation ourselves.  The vanguard gathered the ideas from Sandino, from our own people, and this is what enabled us to lead the people toward their liberty.  We found political, military, ideological, and moral elements in our own people, in our own history” (23).

The Sandinista movement was not really established until 1961, 30 years after Augusto Sandino’s time, but the people of Nicaragua found a name to follow, a hero, a man who had had the same ideals that they had, and just like it states in the quote above, they found those same moral elements in their own history.  Although the now called Sandinistas were fighting for the people against the dictator Somoza, they, along with the Somosistas, made a lot of choices that affected the people.   They would force children to fight; they would take full classrooms at times, and take them to the jungles to fight.  These actions in a way made them no different than the dictators who were also killing innocent people.

The Somoza dictatorship was established in 1936, by Anastasio Somoza García, who had betrayed and assassinated Augusto Cesar Sandino two years before, and who was then preceded by his two sons, first Luís Somoza Debayle, and then his other son Anastasio Somoza Debayle.  The guard, which was under the rule of the Somozas, killed many innocent people, and bombed the neighborhoods where people lived as well.  The Somosistas would kill their own people, just like Anastasio Somoza, the founder of the 42-year-old dictatorship vowed, “I’ll give this country peace if I have to kill every other man in Nicaragua” (Lernoux).  Although he did not kill every other man, about 25,000 Nicaraguans were massacred during the reign of the Somozas, during the time of “peace,” which is during non civil war time.  There were many things that triggered people to rise up against the dictatorship, one of which is stated in an article named “Nicaraguan Americans,” by Stefan Smagula, in which he writes:

“After a severe earthquake leveled Managua in 1972, Anastasio Somoza’s detractors claimed that Somoza had embezzled many millions of dollars of earthquake-relief money. Popular dissatisfaction with the perceived widespread corruption and brutality of the Somoza regime, coupled with anger over what many believed was the Somoza-directed murder of opposition leader Pedro Joaquin Chamorro in 1978, prompted nationwide uprisings that led to civil war.”

Just like the quote states, this was one of the events that enraged people, and got them to want a change.  This was, like the saying, the one of the events that caused the cup to overflow, because the people of Nicaragua had had enough.

My mother was forced to leave her own country for her children’s safety, because there were many people, including youths, who were dying around her.  She was afraid for her life of course but also for those of her kids.  She states:

“They would take lots of youth.  Actually, many kids that I carried, that I held in my arms, died.  Many youth died because of the war.  So more than one of my kids would have died.  That is one of the reasons why I chose to leave … with my six kids, alone with them, my oldest was thirteen years old and my youngest was three.”

Kids that she had carried and had babysat were dying, so what was to say that her kids where not next?  Both sides of the war they were killing innocent lives one way or another, and no matter what party she looked at, whether it was the Sandinistas or the Guardia, they were killing people directly or indirectly.

The Sandinistas, for example, would force people to join the cause or to work for the cause in many ways.  My mother explains that they would be forced to cooperate with them or there would be consequences.  In one case she states:

“It was a hard time, because I was demanded to do surveillance, which consisted of me monitoring outside (the streets), spending the night out with a whistle, and if I saw something suspicious outside then I had to blow it.  But I was a woman who lived alone with my six kids, and they were still very young.”

She also later told me that she was not interested in joining either party because she just wanted to live her life and raise her kids in peace, but as she soon saw, that was not going to happen.  The Sandinistas were pushing her away, because they were forcing her to do something for the cause that should not be forced but she should want to do if they where really working for the people.

The Guardia would have more brutal tactics; they would threaten people and tell them they where going to kill them, or just show up at the door of a suspected Sandinista rebel and kill everyone that was there and everyone that lived there.  My mother said that one time they came, and this is what my mother recalls of what happened that day:

“With all my family, the Guard told us that they would burn the whole neighborhood because it was full of Sandinistas, and because of that many people left desperately and crazy, and went out… only a few of us were left.  Because people were leaving we would tell them that the time of the curfew was coming which was 6pm.”

The guard had placed the curfew at 6pm, and anyone seen outside after 6 would be killed.  According to my mother, the Guardia would not threaten in vain, so these people must have been desperate enough to risk being killed on site for violating curfew, than to be burned to death.

The Sandinistas were not as brutal, but they were smart with what they were doing, because, unlike the Guardia, they would try to gain more support on their side, instead of killing everyone that got in their way.  My mom stated:

“Like many youths, their brains were washed in many forms… I heard say that in some schools they would tell the kids to pray to God for candy and nothing would happen…   Then they asked the kids to close their eyes again and to pray again, but this time to ask the Sandinista leader for candy, then they would place candy in front of them while their eyes where still closed.  Then they would tell them to open their eyes, and they would ask ‘did God give you candy, or did your president?’ then they would answer that the president did.  That is when the guerilla would say ‘okay then you have to be loyal to your president.”

Here we can see that they started with kids by brainwashing them like my mother states, into following the Sandinista movement.  My mom also recalls a time when my oldest brother came from school and asked her sign a permission slip for him to join a group of Niños Sandinistas, which translates to Sandinista Children.  She said that she would not sign, and that’s when my oldest brother said that if she didn’t sign, then his teacher would.  My mom was obviously outraged, and saw then the route that the Sandinistas were moving in, and saw them in a way similar to the Somoza dictatorship.

The Guardia, like I stated before, had brutal tactics; instead of trying to win people to their cause, they where just killing anyone that was opposing them.  They would kill their own people, and not in the jungles, where the war was being fought, but in the neighborhoods, where their were only innocent women and children.  My mom states:

“Well, the bombs, they would drop them in the streets and in the corners.  Mountains of dirt would fall it was horrible…during the war many bombs would fall.  I remember when I would go visit my dad I would have to carry a white flag everyone had to carry a white flag…I saw many people that looked to the skies, and would also watch as other neighborhoods were being bombed.  That was horrible, because they would bomb their own people.”

These women had to carry white flags just to walk around their own neighborhoods, and were afraid that at any moment another air raid would come.  There was no sense of peace, and they had to live under that constant stress that war brings.  This was no place or environment to raise kids in.

Both the Contras and the Guardia were threatening to burn my mom’s house down, and both for similar reasons.  The Contras (Sandinistas) came to her house demanding to go in, because they had heard that in the house they were hiding something, so they searched the house and found nothing, and they left.  She also stated:

Ten days before the war was over four guards where guarding our house…because in previous days guerilla fighters had entered our home during combat, so they where saying that they where going to find that house… and kill everyone.  Like it was their fault.  Without them knowing they where in the right place, because it was our house that the guerillas had entered in during combat.

My mom saw danger on both sides of the war, and had no place to turn to.  Both the Sandinistas and the Guardia where threatening, forcing, and killing people, and she saw herself and her family as a target on both sides.  There was no one else to turn to because those were the only two parties that had power, and they both had that mentality that “you are either for us or against us.”  The Guardia was bombing neighborhoods and killing innocent families, along with kids that had no fault in the war, and the Sandinistas were kidnapping and forcing kids to fight in their war.  They would in some occasions take whole classrooms give the kids guns and tell them to go fight.

On top of both sides causing destruction to their own country and killing their own brothers, after the war there was a food scarce, and the country had sunk into a deeper recession.  Also my mom states:

“There was a rumor that there was going to be another war, the counter war, like the counter-revolution.  This is because there where many people that did not agree because they were betraying their ideas; that is what they said at least.”

That is my mom decided that she had to do something, because her oldest son was around the age, even a little older that some of the kids that had been taken by force to fight, and if the counter-revolution was on its way then she had to get all of her kids out of the country right away.

Wars are brutal, and they cause many people to lose the people and the things that they love in many ways, but a mother will give everything up for the sake of her children.  My mom gave everything up in Nicaragua to save the lives and the future of her kids.  She states:

That’s why I decided to come to this country, because if not, I tell you, more than one of my kids would have died, or would have been mutilated, because I know of people that were mutilated…that was the reason why I decide to come… to save my kids.  Practically, it was because of the war, because I would say no, I have my house over there I have my things and my family…it was hard to technically start over again.

Here we could see that only drastic measures would have caused her to uproot and move to another place.  She had a home, with all of her belongings, and her family in Nicaragua a country that no matter what she loved and continues to love, but her kids where in danger and she had to act quickly if she wanted to save her kids, because she was running out of time.  Running out of time, because her oldest kids where already at age to fight in the war, there was no food to eat, and the next war was about to begin if it hadn’t already.

Some people say that to escape from a war in their country, there is no need to go all the way to the United States that they could easily could go to a neighboring country and seek asylum.  This of course is very true, but what people don’t see, is that during the 1980’s, when my mom left Nicaragua, the other neighboring countries where also having civil wars of their own.  To add on to that, many people say that Nicaraguenses hate the United States for what they have done to their country, and this of course is also true to some extent.  Not all Nicaraguenses hate the United States.  My mom, for example, does not blame the United States for the war and everything that has happened to Nicaragua; she blames the people, and she states that a person should not point fingers at someone else and blame someone else for their own mistakes.  Yes the United States did have some major parts in the war, but at the end the people that committed the atrocities where the Nicaraguenses themselves, because all the U.S. really did, was supply.

The civil war gave my mom no choice but to flee from her country and find a new home because her life and the life of her kids was being threatened from both sides of the civil war.  The Sandinistas were forcing her and her family to participate in their activities or else there would be consequences if she did not, and the Guardia with their brutal tactics, were threatening to kill them indirectly, because every time that there was a bombing her and her kids lives would be in danger.  When her home was no longer safe to live in, she was forced to leave and find a home that was safer to live in, and a good place to raise her kids free from the dangers of war.  She chose the United States because it was the closest country that was safe enough, and where she had friends that where willing to help her get their and start a new life.

Works Cited

• Aguiar Mejia-Mendoza, Luisa Amanda de las Mercedes.  Interview in Spanish.  March 29^th, 2013.  Interviewer and Translator, Mendoza, Judith.
• Vandem, Harry E. and Prevost Gary.  Democracy and Socialism in Sandinista Nicaragua.  Lynne Rienner Publishers, 1996.  Quote by, Humberto Ortega Saavedra.
• Smagula, Stefan.  Nicaraguan Americans.  Countries and their Cultures.  Website: Everyculture.
• Lernoux, Penny.  “Nicaragua’s Civil War.  Showdown With The Somozas.”  The Nation.  September 16^th, 1978.  Copyright Nation Company Inc.

Interview with my mom

• Porque dejo Nicaragua y se vino a los Estados Unidos?

Bueno, más que todo fue una decisión bastante dura bastante difícil, porque yo amo mucho a mi familia y mi familia esta allá pero me vine por, más que todo por la Guerra. He vivido varias guerras halla, y la ultima fue bastante cruel bastante sanguinaria, sufrí bastante.  Esta Guerra fue entre la guardia que son con los somosas y los guerrilleros que ahora son los actuales sandinistas.

• Que clase de cosas sucedieron durante la Guerra que hizo que se disidiera venir?

Bueno, sucedieron muchísimas, porque yo recuerdo que cuando tomaron los barrios un nueve de septiembre, un ano antes yo estaba embarazada.  Tenia siete meses de embarazo y fue duro fue terrible porque sin aviso ni nada bueno aquella balacera que hubo y tuve que dormir tuvimos que dormir todos en el piso y de eso me causo bastante, bastante daño porque no me podía ni sentar ni parar ni nada porque me sentía bien mal.  Y apenas bueno estaba bien bastante joven tenia 27 anos tenia.  También bueno después de ya la Guerra, aquellos enfrentamientos que sin previo aviso sin nada comenzaban, y le silbaban a uno las balas tenia que inmediatamente tirarse al piso habían noches que eran horribles, no había luz, no teníamos agua, bueno fue algo espantoso y después que cuando ellos ganaron,  ganaron los sandinistas, ahora los sandinistas ellos racionaron la comida ósea el racionado quiere decir que teníamos apenas una libra para cada uno.  Fue un momento difícil porque también me exigían que hiciera vigilancia, la vigilancia consistía en que tenia que estar afuera, pasar toda la noche con un silbato y si miraba alguna cosa que tocara ese silbato pero yo soy mujer y pasar toda la noche mis muchachitos estaban pequeños fue algo tremendo también verdad, cuando recuerdo, recuerdo es bastante doloroso porque no dejo de sentirme nerviosa cuando recuerdo todo lo que pase que me pareciera una pesadilla, una pesadilla.  Cuando mi muchachito mayor tenia como, como 11 anos el llego un día de la escuela y me dice “mami firma este papel”, entonces le digo pero “espérate que lo debo leer”.  Y lo voy leyendo y decía dice que lo tengo que firmar, porque mi hijo iba a pertenecer a la asociación de niños sandinistas, entonces yo le dije a él, “no eso si no lo voy a firmar” “si no lo firmas tu” me dice el, “va firmar el maestro”. Entonces era una situación  bastante ya estaban como dicen lavando le el cerebro a mi hijo, como a muchos jóvenes les lavaron el cerebro de muchas formas.  De muchas formas porque se cuenta se dice eso no lo vi verdad, pero si lo oí decir que en algunas escuelas a los niños les decían que oraran o rezaran y pidiéndole a dios caramelos. Entonces le pedían a dios caramelos, y no pasaba nada.  Pero después le decían los piricuacos, esos que son del ejército, los sandinistas, bueno les decían a los niños.  Dios les dio caramelos, no contestaban los niños.  Bueno vuelvan a cerrar los ojos les decían a los niños, ahora pídanle a su presidente ósea al sandinismo, y entonces ellos les ponían dulces.  Cuando abrían sus ojitos los niños miraban los dulces, y les decían bueno quien les dio caramelos?  Dios o su presidente?  Entices decían los niños que el presidente.   Entonces ustedes tienen que ser leales le decían a los niños, a los sandinistas, a su presidente.  Ósea fue como un lavado de cerebro a las pobres creaturas.  Y por so me miraba en problemas porque yo no estaba de acuerdo.  No estaba de acuerdo ni con uno con el otro, pero sin embargo todavía fue peor ahorita el sandinismo.  También verdad, una de las cosas que me hizo venir para acá, fue de que se rumoraba que venia otra Guerra, que era la contra.  Ósea la contra revolución.  Porque muchos no estaban de acuerdo porque ellos habían traicionado las ideas que supuestamente ellos decían.  Y a muchos muchachos se los llevaban.  Es más yo a muchos muchachos que yo chineé, ósea que tuve en mis brazos, murieron.  Allá murieron muchos jóvenes a causa de eso.  Ósea que mas de alguno de mis hijos hubiera perecido.  Por so fue una de las razones fueron tantas las razones de tantos problemas de que yo me decidí venirme con 6 de mis hijos.  Solita con ellos.  Uno de 13 anos, y el menor de 3.

• Y el terremoto que sucedió en Nicaragua, sucedió antes de la guerra durante o después?

No, fue antes porque fue en el 1972 en diciembre.

• Y como fue que eso afectó la Guerra o la estancia, en Managua que fue mas afectado, y como se sintió durante el terremoto?

Bueno durante el terremoto eso fue horrible porque fueron prácticamente dos.  Uno y el siguiente fue a los 20 minutos que fue el que termino con todo Managua.  O prácticamente con casi todo Managua.  El terremoto afecto bastante mas que todo, como yo estaba bien joven todavía yo no salía.  Estaban  pequeñitos mis muchachitos, estaban mas chiquitos, pero si afecto bastante, pero sin embargo, si llegaron muchas ayudas de aquí de EEUU y las repartieron.  Pero no le puedo decir mas de lo que paso con la guerra tal ves bueno lo tomaron tal ves como una ventaja no se.

• Y en las razones quien tenia la culpa o a quien culpaban?

Bueno es mas ahorita que me estas diciendo eso me acuerdo que el primer diciembre que pase con los sandinistas fue algo espantoso porque ellos ganaron supuestamente en Julio y en diciembre no había ni siquiera sal.  Tuve que andar en muchas pulperías y no encontré sal.  Porque decían ellos, algo tan absurdo, de que los EEUU tenían la culpa.  Como que los EEUU se había llevado el mar.  Para mi bueno no se, era algo tan absurdo completamente.

• Se acuerda de otra cosa que paso durante la guerra?

Si porque en plena Guerra llegaron unos guerrilleros y estaban como nerviosos, como diciéndonos que nosotros escondíamos algo.  Entonces les hicimos pasar.  Y ellos escultaron todo absolutamente todo.  Y se quedaron tranquilos.  Pero durante la guerra también, como a los diez días antes de terminar la Guerra, muchos guardias, cuatro guardias estaban custodiando la casa, y no porque nos estaban custodiando a nosotros, si no porque en días anteriores se habían metido unos guerrilleros en pleno combate.  Entonces ellos decían que ellos iban a encontrar esa casa.  Encontrar esa casa para matarlos a todos.  Como que tenían la culpa.  Y ellos sin saber estaban en el lugar correcto, porque éramos nosotros los que, a quien se les habían metido los guerrilleros a pleno combate.  Eso fue espantoso, ósea nos miramos en problemas casi de muerte, por decir así.  Tanto los guerrilleros, que son ahorita los sandinistas, como la guardia, que son los somocistas.

• Y cuando caían las bombas, o la balacera usted sentía como temblaba la tierra, o que sentía en ese momento?

Bueno las bombas,  las botaban en las calles y en las esquinas.  Y caían montones de arena, y eso era espantoso como se oía el sin.  Era una lluvia horrible se oía.  También recuerdo que en la Guerra habían, tiraban muchas bombas, una ves que me acuerdo que yo iba a ver a mi papa, tenia que andar con una banderita blanca, todos teníamos que andar, allí no se miraban hombres. Solo las mujeres salíamos con una banderita blanca, y miro mucha gente que esta viendo al cielo, y que están viendo como estas bombardeando los demás barrios.  Y eso fue espantoso, fue horrible por que bombardeaban a su propia gente.  Eso fue espantoso, fue horrible.  Muchos murieron con, o quedaban tal ves no muertos pero si con charnel ósea pedazos de hiero cosas así, de lo que tiraban las bombas.  También en la guerra, en los 45 días de guerra que hubo, no había una pulpería donde se encontraba absolutamente nada, nada, nada.  Porque si uno abría una pulpería, inmediatamente le prendían fuego.  Y recuerdo que también a partir de que se metieron esos guerrilleros en mi casa, aunque no tenia que decir porque yo porque si no me moría también.  Con todo y mi familia, dijeron la guardia que iban a quemar esa barrio porque estaba lleno de sandinistas, entonces a raíz de eso, mucha gente salió desesperada, como loca, y salió.  Fue algo horrible porque quedamos unos cuantos nada más.  Porque salía la gente y les decíamos ya viene la hora, ya viene la hora, la hora este de queda.  Ósea, la hora 6 de la tarde, que nadie podía andar fuera.  Ósea la hora que le llaman “toque de queda”.

Y quien puso esa hora?

La guardia pues porque para evitar esos ataques.  Y aun así habían ataques.  Porque en la noche recuerdo que por lo menos recuerdo que fueron dos o tres noches que pensé que nos íbamos a morir.  Como nos silbaba, i como temblaba la tierra.  Y yo tener que dormir en el piso con mis niños.  Tenia en ese entonces, mi niño del que estaba embarazada cuando tomaron los barrios, tenia como seis meses de nacido nada más.

Y por eso se decidió venir para acá?

Por eso decidí venir me a este país, por que si no como les digo, mas de uno de mis hijos hubiera muerto, o hubiera sido mutilado.  Porque conozco a unos que están completamente mutilados, ósea que les falta un brazo, o están desfigurados.  Esa fue la decisión que me hizo venir para acá.  Fue una decisión bastante difícil, bastante dura, porque tenía que salvar a mis hijos, pero dejaba allá a toda mi familia, a mi demás familia.  A mis hermanos y a mi papa.

Y cuando y como es que usted se vino a EE.UU.?

Bueno yo me vine, nunca se me va a olvidar esa fecha, yo me vine en Junio del ano 1982.  Me vine por Méjico, llegue hasta Méjico, porque ya había intentado sacar visa, a mi me la dieron pero a mis hijos no.  Así que me vine hasta Méjico.  De Méjico agarre un autobús para Tijuana, de Tijuana para San Diego.  Una persona que nos pasara, nos paso por la loma.  Se le llaman a esas personas Coyotes.  De allí bueno, pasamos por San Diego antes de San Diego habían muchos retenes.  Esa tarde fuego espantoso, pero gracias a dios, paso algo, un milagro, y nosotros pudimos pasar.  De allí nos llevaron asta santana.  En Santana nos entregaron allí, y nos fuimos hasta los Ángeles, y allí estuvimos por uno semana, y bien pasamos.  Tuvimos que, no teníamos nada de ropa.  Teníamos solamente lo que andábamos puesto.  Pero gracias a dios estamos a salvo, de esa tiranía, de esa guerra, de esos problemas.  De esa ansia de poder que tienen los Sandinistas allá en Nicaragua.  Fue algo horrible porque allá tengo a mi familia también.

Y como fue su travesía de Tijuana a EE.UU.?

Vino por tierra o de Nicaragua como fue por tierra o por avión?

De Managua a Méjico fue en avión, en avión.  Pero de Méjico a Tijuana en bus.  De allí también de Tijuana para san Diego fue en bus también, en carro.  De allí también a santana de carro.  De allí a los Ángeles en carro.  Y de allí de los Ángeles estuvimos como una semana y nos venimos para San Francisco en avión.

Y nunca hubo problema de que no podían sus hijos, de que no podían llegar todos?  Siempre estuvieron juntos?  O tuvo que dejar a uno de sus hijos atrás?

Bueno cuando nosotros llegamos a Tijuana, fue un cuatro de Junio, llegaron por nosotros al día siguiente, y llevaron a tres de mis hijos.  Y me quede solamente con tres, pero al siguiente, a la siguiente semana, entre semana, llego la misma señora por nosotros, pero había un pequeño problema, y ya ella no quiso volver.  Y nos quedamos allí.  Por eso es que se tuvo que pagar una persona que nos tuvo que pasar, un coyote.  Porque ya se acobardo completamente ella.  Pero yo pase solamente con tres de mis hijos, pero yo pase tan desesperada por que pasamos por la loma, corriendo mientras el helicóptero que guarda la frontera asía un recorrido por otro lada.  Pero eso fue por segundos, entonces nosotros teníamos que correr, para pasar esa loma.  Y nosotros tuvimos que tirar prácticamente como deslizándonos, dándonos vueltas.  Eso fue horrible porque mi niño, el mas chiquito, el gritaba y gritaba toda la noche, paso gritando diciendo de que se quería ir a su casita desesperado.  Fueron momentos bastante difíciles.  Bastante difíciles porque aun cuando me acuerdo siento, aun que ya casi tengo 31 anos y medio de estar aquí, pero me siento como que lo vuelvo a revivir.  Tanto como lo que viví allá en Nicaragua como cuando vine hasta acá.

Y como se sintió cuando por fin llego hasta San Francisco, y que es lo hizo que se decidiera venir hasta la ciudad de San Francisco?

Bueno yo me sentí muy feliz al haber ya estado con mis hijos aquí.  Dije yo ya salve a mis hijos dije yo.  Y la razón porque fui hasta San Francisco, fue porque me estaba esperando un familiar, y entonces por eso es que fuimos a San Francisco.

Y se sintió aliviada al haber llegado aquí, un alivio, o como se sintió?

Completamente que ya estaba libertada, ya esta presión de la guerra esa presión a pesar de que yo no tenia ni un papel, ni pequeño ni grande ni nada.  Pero si me sentía que ya había salvado a mis hijos.

Y como se siente en los EE.UU?  Siente que su hogar esta aquí en los EE.UU. o en Nicaragua?

Bueno es una pregunta que en realidad yo me siento repartida mi corazón esta bien agradecida con este país, primera mente con dios, pero también con este país, pero tengo a mi familia allá, gran parte de mi familia allá en Nicaragua.  Ósea que me siento, que tengo dos hogares, tanto como aquí como allá en Nicaragua.

Siente que en parte la guerra tuvo que ver con ese sentimiento del hogar?  En el aspecto de que fue arrebatada de su hogar, en una forma u otra?

Claro que si porque prácticamente aunque yo me siento tan feliz aquí me siento muy feliz muy agradecida, pero sin embargo me dolió mucho haber dejado a mi familia allá, mas que todo fue por la guerra.  Por la situación tan horrible.  Por salvar a mis hijo.  Entonces prácticamente fue por la guerra, porque yo decía no, allá tenia mi casita, tenia mis cosas, tengo a mi familia.  Así es que por eso y fue bien duro volver, prácticamente es como volver a comenzar.  Fue bastante difícil.  Porque ahora gracias a dios, ya tengo dos hijos nacidos aquí, nacieron aquí, yo ya soy ciudadana y por eso le doy gracias a dios.  Pero no fue fácil toda esa trayectoria.  Se dice fácil en unos minutos haber venido hasta aquí, pasar lo que pase pero me siento muy feliz porque aquí ya salve a mis hijos.  No me caso de decir a mis hijos porque salve a mis hijos, a mis primero seis hijos que nacieron allá.

Cuando ivamos a llegar a un motel en San Diego porque ya habia oscuresido y dijeron los que nos iban a pasar “no ya esta muy noche aqui nos vamos a quedar, ya no vamos a viajar.  Entonces yo traia a una de mis hijas, mi hija tenia 11 Amos apenas, entonces yo lo que hice, la hiba aciendo para atras, y para atras, quitandola a ella, por is acaso, yo grito digo yo.  Porque no voy a permitir que les que le agan algo a ella.  No me hubiera importado que me hubiera agarrado la policia, le hiban a aser dano, porque earn tres jovenes que nos traian.  Y entonces digo yo cualquier cosa digo yo, no me le van a ser dano a ella.  Is me lo hacen, que me lo hagan a mi.  Para proteger a mis hijos, sobre todo a ella.  Esto sucedió en San Diego, cuando ya íbamos para acá.  Bueno algo se me olvido decir, que aun a mi me bajaron del bus, cuando venia de Méjico para Tijuana, me bajaron del bus, y la inmigración de Méjico  Fue algo tan tremendo tan horrible por que venían mis seis hijos en el autobús y yo me baje, y me dijeron a mi “piensas pasarte a el otro lado verdad”, me dice.  Entonces yo sin mentirle le dije “si eso intento”.  Entonces me dijeron ellos, “ahh tu no sabes que nosotros estamos aquí para impedírtelo?”  Si lo se le dije yo, pero en mi país le dije esta terrible, y comencé a decirle todo. Total que le comencé a decir a esta persona que me dejara ir, y que me dejara ir.  Hasta le ofrecí dinero y si me dejo ir.  Fue algo tan espantoso porque yo andaba siempre con solo seis pasaportes, porque mi hijo menor no tenía porque solo tenía tres anos y estaba conmigo en mi pasaporte.  Y aquí estoy toda yo, aquí ya vendí mi casa vendí todo para poder venirme aquí porque allá no se puede vivir.  Usted escucha, si acaso usted escucha las noticias allá como esta la situación le digo yo en Nicaragua.  Y si me dejo venir pero desde ese momento al darse cuenta de que lo que yo trataba de hacer, todos en el autobús